Who's put one in and any problems?

I put one in and have had a continuous problem. All parts have been rebuilt or replaced. 4 Cyl.springs for small block. Rebuilt rack. All new bushings. New shocks,tie rod ends and allllllll. My front left side kept woobling when I hit a bump. My tire is getting all chopped up. I got the lowered rack tie rod kit to cure the problem. Still have the same problem. Anyone have any ideas? My bro-in-law who does frontends for a living will not work on it. I think he got in a pissin match with Industrial Chassis over the lowered rack kit....since it uses a grade 8 bolt to hold the frontend together instead of tapered tie rod end. So back to the problem...my left front woobles whenever I hit a bump. I don't want to junk my frame but maybe one of you guys have been thru this problem.. Appreciate any help or a buyer for a 54 panel with woobly front???...


Michigan Rick

 

You need to contact Industrial Chassis ICMenu
in Phoenix, AZ...They are the gurus of Dakota front ends. They should be able to answer your questions. Hope this helps!

 

Sorry.........it is the right front that is woobly.

Hunt......been there done that....I went that route ,,oh you need to buy better shocks, oh you need this rack lowering kit,, each time weeks or more goes by waiting. I know most people in the magazines think they are kings and on different web sites,,,,and maybe I'll think they are kings but I'm not feeling it since it seems like I'm chasing ??? all the time not answers. Just try this or maybe this..

I'm not a pro chassis guy but I had a buddy do the welding ,,who does it for his job. I had a pro do the aligning. I've changed the front bearings again and like I said everything is new except the donor parts, and they are clean Texas parts that are straight. Even new tires and wheels.

Just looking for anyone who might have done this project and had similar problems. I'm really not happy which is not me since I've been a Ford truck guy my whole life. Plus the truck I've done this to was just fine with a dropped front axle that I've owned since 1980. So when your little baby is sick you want to fix it.

Michigan Rick

 

That stinks...hopefully someone can lend a hand on this...I considered the dakota for a while...along with volare, mustang II etc...I finally just said heck with it and am keeping the straight axle! Good luck getting her straight!

 

Bttt...........

 

If nothing is actually bent, could be simply adjusting for a little more toe out. Just not so much that causes to it to wander all over the road. Being aligned within spec doesnt mean anything if a problem isnt resolved. Just an idea to try.

 

This sounds very much like the dreaded death wobble.

I fixed the death wobble on my 49 with a straight axle by increasing toe in. Setting the toe is an easy enough adjustment that you can do in your driveway. Give it a shot and see what happens. I think I have mine set with at a 1/4" total toe in. If that doesn't work try it toe out like fordtrucksforever advised.

Wouldn't it be fun to go back to your brother-in-law and razz him unmercilessly because the big high and mighty front end man couldn't figure out a simple toe-in adjustment problem.

Good luck
Bobby

 

Geez Rick, I thought we were cool with this the last time we talked. Glad to see you handling this through a message board instead of with me directly.

This is the first I can remember you mentioning tire cupping.

Yes, I do use a 5/8" grade 8 bolt to correct the bumpsteer in ALL of the aftermarket Dodge Dakota spindles. I have tested this myself in the extreme for many miles on my personal truck. I even used the ****tiest spindle available, AIM, to prove my point. The fact of the matter is the bolt I used in this situation is STRONGER than the factory ball stud in the tie rod end in every way imaginable. If your in-law doesn't understand that is because of his own ignorance and prejudice. At this point I really question his ability to align a front end much less diagnose an alignment issue. I highly suggest you find someone more qualified.

If you are cupping tires on one side you do have a problem usually a toe problem. A wobble doesn't really explain what is going on but the only things that could possibly cause cupping like this are easily fixed. Typically they are bad upper ball joints, inner or outer tie rod ends, loose wheel bearings, bent wheels, shifted belts in your tires or a **** poor alignment.

Please make damn sure you torqued the large 5/8" bolt to 120 ft/lbs as written in the instruction page. Check for any end play in your inner tie rod end first.

Next take a pair of large slip lock pliers and try and compress the upper ball joint stud into it's body. If you can compress it easily or more than an 1/8" you ball joint is toast. Same goes for the lower, use a scissor jack to lift the lower control arm and raise the wheel off the ground an inch or so. Then with a small pry bar try to raise the the wheel and watch for a change in the ball joint. If you see the joint move (expand) your lower joint is toast and was either installed incorrectly or is worn out.

On your wheel bearings, remove the dust cap, cotter pin and capture retainer. While the wheel is still off the ground tighten the wheel bearing retainer nut until you feel a slight drag in the wheel then back the nut off 1/6 of a turn (one flat) and reassemble the retainer, cotter pin and dust cap. Any less preload than this will cause all sorts of issues and if you find you needed to tighten the nut a fair amount you may be experiencing bearing failure or one of the bearing races may not have been fully seated or is sinking in the rotor.

Once yo have set your wheel bearing preload correctly spin the tire and watch to see if it spins true.

Everything else we can check from here on out is going to get labor intensive and if you want I can explain in detail how to check for bumpsteer, camber gain and caster gain. All off which would have no affect on tire cupping.

A picture is worth a thousand words, So here are a few of my bumpsteer correction kit for the aftermarket Dakota Dropped spindles.. The tire you see in the second picture is of my truck literally taken minutes ago. I had just drove 25 miles from my house to work. It has over 25 thousand miles on it and looks damn near brand new. And if you look closely at the outer edge of that 255/40/17" tire you will notice an unevenness to the tread pattern. That is not from adverse wear caused by a bad alignment but rather from very hard cornering from the rush hour grand prix I just enjoyed.





I ask you to either post some pictures here or Email them to me. I have tried to do my best for every one of my customers, sometimes I do fail, I am imperfect. I do know this system works as so far I can honestly say you are the only one with a problem this long going and thus far uncorrected. I, like yourself would love to fix this issue.

 

You know I just thought to add a few things to check out also.

Along with end play in your inner tie rod end you need to check the condition of the rack itself. Check for sloppyness in the rack bushings and the mounting bushings. If there is ANY play there at all, replace it. This is a truck we are finishing for a customer, the frame was built about 5 years ago and has sat in his garage and ours for some time now and you can see how ozone has tore up the bushings. But the rack is in it's correct position.

 

Steve... you are correct I should not ??? your ability here in a forum.
I'm sorry for that. It just seemed we did not click on any of the problems that arose along the way. So I came here to find answers for my problem. Hopefully others could help but apparently not. Glad you answered and I'll check on your suggestions. I won't say my in-law is a king of frontends but he is well respected with them...he is an idiot tho for divorcing my sister.

Michigan Rick

 

Rick, I don't know the guy and cannot pass judgment on him. But when it comes to diagnosing a problem and solving it with front suspensions I have serious reservations.

Did he even suggest what he feels the problem may be?

Every front end guy I have ever known can inspect a car/truck and in a few minutes tell me what is wrong or needs attention. Back in my 91 or 92 I worked on a 89 Camaro for a friend. The front needed new lower ball joints so I put them in for him while we did all the engine work. I was unfamiliar with the "wear indicator" style ball joints that McQuay Norris had put out and I pressed them in as I always had. Unfortunately I pressed the wear indicator in and ruined the ball joint, it took three joints before his alignment guy informed me of what I was doing wrong.

Here is a website with videos that pretty much explains what I had said earlier with a graphic explaination of how the wear indicators works if you are interested.

CarQuest Chassis Training - Suspension Components

For only one side to give you this trouble I just want to reinforce that I belive you have a problem with the upper ball joint or a tie rod. If both tires are cupping then it is a toe issue related to steering components. If it is only one side it is ball joint/bushing or shock related.

You and I know that just because it is new does not mean it is good...

 

Here are some other websites to help you diagnose what is going on..

HOW TO READ TIRE WEAR

Cupped tires?

Wheel Alignment and Wheel Balancing

E430 Tire cupping

ALLDATA -- 97 Ford F150, Tire Cupping

 

Thanks Steve...awesome follow up and advice!


Also...many thanks for stopping in and making my earlier comment seem really smart...good advice like that is pretty rare for me... j/k

Seriously though, those are some great links and good pics!

 

ELpolacko

Thanks for posting the information; good reading. With my expertise, it was better to get my MII alignment done by a shop. When hurtling through space at 60 mph plus, some things are better left to the experts.

Tom

 

Rick, I don't know the guy and cannot pass judgment on him. But when it comes to diagnosing a problem and solving it with front suspensions I have serious reservations.

Did he even suggest what he feels the problem may be?

Every front end guy I have ever known can inspect a car/truck and in a few minutes tell me what is wrong or needs attention. Back in my 91 or 92 I worked on a 89 Camaro for a friend. The front needed new lower ball joints so I put them in for him while we did all the engine work. I was unfamiliar with the "wear indicator" style ball joints that McQuay Norris had put out and I pressed them in as I always had. Unfortunately I pressed the wear indicator in and ruined the ball joint, it took three joints before his alignment guy informed me of what I was doing wrong.

Here is a website with videos that pretty much explains what I had said earlier with a graphic explaination of how the wear indicators works if you are interested.

CarQuest Chassis Training - Suspension Components

For only one side to give you this trouble I just want to reinforce that I belive you have a problem with the upper ball joint or a tie rod. If both tires are cupping then it is a toe issue related to steering components. If it is only one side it is ball joint/bushing or shock related.

You and I know that just because it is new does not mean it is good...



x x
o
~~~~~


Man o man.........recheck this recheck that. Play with this play with that. Finally it was a bad (cheap rebuild) non-power rack from Autozone. New does not mean good!!!

Also my Coker tires with 5000 miles are not round anymore.!!!

Big difference with new rack and now with my build up wheels from installing your crossmember with. Junk tires and all has made my baby ride like I was waiting for.

Thank you.......

I guess I wasn't trusting you and wanted to hear something from someone other than the guy who owns the place. Sorry I wasn't saying your stuff was bad.....I just couldn't come up with the right combo of new stuff.

Once my grade 8 bolt on my motor mount broke and my motor fell and ate the radiator and a bunch of other stuff. Luckily I was only going 30 MPH.

Once a parts place in western US screwed me for a bunch of money.

Once a dropped axle place from out west screwed me when I put my dropped axle in.

I was thinking I was going down that road with you... When I put your frontend in I was very happy. Anything is better than a straight axle. (no matter what others think...I'm on my 6th truck) Now that I put miles on it I could feel things weren't just right. I'm not much of a poster of info but have read a few of your posts about frontends. I thought you were very knowledgeable but kept wondering till..... NOW!

Thank you again for answering and I'm actually glad I made myself look dumb for posting....but it got the problem solved. I guess that's what I was looking for all along. Hopefully you'll post here more often and you can answer all the questions other posters have about your frontend swap. Just look it up....there are about 5 pages of posts looking into your swap.


Thanks again.....Michigan Rick

now to fix some square tires...and start on my 56 Merc.