Since I joined FTE about six months ago I have noticed that there are a lot of guys out there that have some of those old school skills that you won't find in most shops nowadays. When my dad got out of the service at the end od WWII he started a bodyshop. I barely remember it because I was probably only three or four years old. Around 1950 he got into construction work which paid better but he always kept a home shop. All through my childhood he and one of my older cousins would rebuild wrecked cars. That was before it was a bad thing. What I remember is some of the things they used to do. Like Roger, (rcav8or), shows in one of his latest posts, they made parts for the body. After the war you couldn't get that stuff. I can remember them using sheet metal from old appliances or anything else they could get. They did it with a minimum amount of tools and equipment. There were no MIGs, TIGs, pinch rollers,sheers and brake presses either. All the welding was done with an acetylene torch. There was no bondo, they used lead. They applied it with a torch and oil soaked wooden paddles. then they worked it down with body files. Due to all the time savers, new equipment and methods, these skills are lost with the young people who work in body shops. If they had to do things the old way the would be lost. I'm not suggesting that we go back to the old ways, but I do hope some one keeps the skills of the past alive. My great Uncle who passed some years ago had a body shop for just about all his working life. He told me that when he went to school to learn his trade they were taught how to do wood work as well as metal work. This is because the older cars and trucks had wood frame works under the sheet metal. I would imagine that is a skill that is all but lost.

At 63 I realize that I don't have a lot of time left and I wonder if there will be younger people who will learn and maintain these old skills and methods. I have tried to pass on what I have learned to my son who also has an old Ford truck.

Thanks to suppliers that are now making planishing hammers and English wheels available to hobbyist level people, there might be incentive for people to keep the skills alive.

I would like to encourage all that have these skills and do this kind of work to post pictures here. That practice alone may encourage others.

Later Folks...

 

Well, Dave...you can rest a little easier (or not!!) but in my college degree in bodywork, the teacher taught us the old ways of using oxy-acetylene welding, bean-bag hammer beating, and body solder techniques, as well as the new methods. (this was in 1997)Our second year teacher wanted to just teach us the new way to prepare us for modern body shops. I didn't end up working in one, but in retrospect, I am more grateful that the first year teacher taught us all of the old methods as well as the new. He's retired now, so those skills are probably not being taught now.

 

I worked in a private shop with a guy who built T buckets and Kustoms in the 60's and 70's
He showed me theres more than one way to skin a cat. The one thing my older friends in there 60's plus dont use anymore is lead.
I know its an art a skill ect. but they wont touch it do to the health concerns.
I know old man Hines has been living on the stuff for years but theres been too many just drop from lead poisoning and cancer from the bad chems.
We use to cut the roofs out of junk cars and make fender skirts. They had the correct bubble to them already. No one had an english wheel we just made do with what we had.
No shrinkers, stretchers. Just hammers, vises and a brake.
We used a plasma cutter when they first came out and we had more fun with that thing writing our names like kids haha

 

Well if it helps I am right now selling off two vehicles to fund my English wheel, power bead roller and new shrinker and stretchers for doing panel fabrication. I have also been doing a good amount of lead (now body solder) work as well. I plan on going full time in my shop in 5yrs and it will be almost all old school ways of doing things with a modern touch like TIG welders, power bead rollers, modern design of the English wheel and so on. I am looking at $15,000 just in 5 tools but that will round out my fab shop very nicely and get every thing headed in the right direction. I am 36 now and I will be teaching my son everything I now as soon as he is old enough to get out in the shop and start working. Their is hope yet!

Kevin
LFD Inc.

 

Unfortunately I haven't had anyone around that I could learn the "old school" techiniques, but I'm thankfully one who can teach myself by readying and doing my homework (and a LOT of practice). I've collected what tools I can, body hammers, dollies, shot bag and mallet... even an improvised anvil made from a railroad rail... Its been a lot of trial an error, but it works for me

 

That's great Kevin. We need more like you. I especially liked the part about working with your son. That alone is worth the 15K you are spending. I too am a great believer in combining the best of the old and the new. Maybe that's why I'm a Darksider.

Later Man...

 

I build all my own body panels, I find it very challenging at times, but very relaxing. I also think of it as an art. I have taught myself how to do it because I never really knew anyone who did it. I have be able to rebuild a lot of body panels other wouldn't have touched.





The one thing that I wish I could do is lead work. I once worked next door to a small one man body shop that did a lot of lead work. The guy was amazing, he made slapping the lead on the car so easy. He would even lead parts of modern cars with their paper thin metal. To watch this guy apply the lead, work it with the wooden paddles was awsome. He told me story about how he started in his dad's shop back in the '30s. His dad gave him a set of fenders from a customer's car, something like a Model A or early '30s Ch**y. His dad gave them to him in the morning and told him he wanted the fenders straightened within a certain amount of time, with no filler, all by hammer and dolly and file. He worked on them for a couple of days and finally finished, his dad checked them out and gave them his OK, which wasn't that easy to get. His dad set them on the side of the shop where a short time later another employee accidently drove a car into them. No was happy that day.

 

I'm w/ Kevin. I have two boys (5y/o & a newborn) and I yearn to see the day they work beside me in the shop. My biggest fear is they lack interest. I'm sure, though, with mine, my dad's, my brother's interest and investment in them and the hobby, they'll turn out.
JML

 

Nice work there Bob.
I just got through making a lower patch on my left front fender. It looks very similar to yours.
Heres something that caught me off guard. My 13 year old daughter wants to try shaping metal.... so proud . My right side was run down a fenc eline so I have plenty of teaching room haha.
I have a 19 month old son thats in line for it someday to.

 

There's some nice shots of traditional style work in the 'Barris Kustom Techniques of the '50's' books.
Mind you,thats from some one who knows jack about jack.

 

Scott,

I don't want to worry you but if your daughter starts working on trucks I think you might have some severe boy problems in the near future. There is nothing more attractive in a girl than one who know what end of wrench to use, IMO. On the other hand just think of all the motorheads you'll have hanging around your house.

 

I do a little bit of lead work from time to time particularly if it is on an edge. For example I frenched in a power antenna just behind the drivers door on my 49. I will lead that edge. The most impressive leading work that I watched was a guy working on his back leading a seam on the underside of a boat tail speedster. That was at a very high end shop run by a really good guy. That shop prepared a car, a custom bodied Duesenburg, that won best of show at Pebble Beach last year. Pebble Beach is about the most prestigious show in the USA. When I congratualated the shop owner on the award his comment was that "we just got lucky". As I said, a really good guy.

 

I just got my 3 foot piece of rail about a month ago! Man, I use the heck out of it. Do you use it just as is, or are the ends formed or anything? I've got to figure out a cradle that I can "flip" somehow, so I can take advantage of top AND bottom! Lot's of nice curves and angles there...

My daughter's boyfriend told me he wants to work on cars for a living (16 yo). When I had him help lift my tranny to the bench, he asked what it was! I told him he has to know those things, to work on cars, and he said "No, I want to put in killer stereos and stuff!". I think that's the way it's mostly going...

Pebble Beach isn't about the most prestigious - it IS the most prestigious!! They have a couple in Europe that match it, different type cars, though. I'd love to go to Pebble Beach, sometime before I die...

I learned leading long before I ever used filler. I actually was quite good at it - one of the few things I had a natural knack for. But the guy I learned from was a true wizard with the paddles, so I think that's why it came easily. I haven't touched it since the early 80's, and when I did then, I had lost some of the skills. The secret is that there's a very critical point somewhere in between where it's very malleable, and easily paddled to shape, and dropping off the car! And when you get to that temp, you have to alternate paddle and flame, to maintain the heat, without getting just a few degrees hotter. Tough to get to that point, but when you do, total Nirvana!!! I'm a filler-type guy now, I may have to lead a few places, as was said, on the corners, etc, but the advances in body putty are phenomenal, and even the top-dollar resto guys are using them.

Nice thread, Dave! I wish my nephews would take the time to come out. Several of them are interested enough, just too busy. Shame, I could use the help once in a while..

R

 

Where there's a will..there's a way! I've always liked the old stuff,
mid-thirties thru the sixties, and as we all know, it's getting harder and harder to find original or even replacement parts....What's a poor soul to do???
Companies like Eastwood provide alot of tools and materials, magazines provide some examples of "how-to", but the interest and desire to read all one can and to learn as much about the subject before taking on the project or operation...comes from within, IMHO....thats why some people fix old cars as a hobby and some people collect stamps...BTW, I dont know anyone who collects stamps, nor do I mean to imply that someone shouldn't enjoy doing it....I just lick-em and stick-em....LOL!!!
Point is, I guess somebody might get as much satisfaction finding a stamp they've been looking for for ten years...as I do from forming a piece of metal that is no longer available for a patch to weld into a bad rust-spot, finishing it to make it look original....

 

Thanks for the compliment Roger. I guess I keep coming up with these things out of frustration. About every other day I run over to my neighbor's spare garage and look at my truck and the extra parts I have stored there, wishing I could start on it right now. But then nasty old common sense prevails and I realize I have things to finish before I start on the 53. If I don't the other stuff will never get done and just be in the way.

Sorry about your daughter's choice in boyfriends... At least he has ambition enough to want to do something.

Yeah, I remember watching my Dad run lead. It is an art. He was able to transform that art to High Voltage cable splicing when they used to wipe lead on it. He made a bunch of money at that on construction. That is another lost art. It is now only done on rare occasions in places over fifty years old that still have lead shielded HV cable. As much as I admire the art of using lead in body work, I probably won't be attempting it. There was a pretty good body filler material about 35 years ago called Aluma-Lead. It was at a level between bondo and lead. You could actually drill and tap the stuff. I hyaven't seen it for years. I doubt if they still make it.