This is more of a general question than a 385 question, but I see lots of posts warning people not to use Fram oil filters. I was just wondering why? Personally, I tend to match filter brands to manufacturers (Motocraft on Fords, AC Delco on Chevys) but I have used Frams plenty of times and have had no problems.

Are they really that shoddy?

Edit: Oh, the reason I ask is that I saw my first collapsed oil filter today and it got me wondering...

 

Just buy a new one take it home and cut it open.
Then come back here and tell Us what You found.

 

Well, I've used them in the past and not had an issue, but then again, alot of times this is the kinda item that would not show an immediate positive or negative result.

BUT, since you ask. A friend of mine who owns a parts store told me just this past weekend that the Fram line of filters are of the lowest quality. He mentioned that you would likely not find a quality minded parts store carrying them and about the only place that consistently carries them is Wal-Mart. Speaking of Wal-Mart, he also mentioned that just because one store carries a product by the same name and/or part #, doesnt mean it is the same quality. He went on to say that basically there are different levels of quality control or a grading system. To the best of his knowledge, Wal-Mart and Auto Zone carry and sell the poorest quality products on the grading scale, which is why they are able to sell for less.

I have no facts to back up these statements, simply the word of someone who has been in the parts business all of his life and a good friend.

Hope this helps

Eric

 

Well i have heard that double quality standard comment used before by people that want you to pay a lot more money for the same product. Does walmart carry cheap junk? oh heck yes, but if it says Valvoline 5w-20 synthetic oil on the bottle and the bottle looks the same as the one you buy at the high priced parts store for $1.75 more per quart I promise you it's the same part. I heard teh same thing said by a ford parts guy about NAPA parts for instance, he told me the reason napa was able to sell the sealed unit bearing for the front of my superduty for less then half the price that the ford stealership wanted for it was because it was a lower quality part, well in doing some research I accidently found out a little very interesting information. The bearings used in those are Timken bearings and I tried to get Timken to sell me a set of them... answer was "we can only sell them to the contract source for Ford" seems there is only ONE manufacture of those bearings IN THE WORLD and they use the exact same parts with the exact same part numbers and put them all in the exact same boxes to be shipped to the exact same warehouse were they are then labeled with the individual labels needed as they are sent out, and usually that label went OVER the Ford label. I actually took my box with the bearing from napa into the Ford guy and in front of him peeled off the NAPA label to reveal the Ford parts label underneath.
yes I know it's long winded and off topic in response to the OP but the point is anytime someone tells you that just because Walmart or someone else carries the part it's lesser quality even though the name, part number, box are identical they are just trying to justify the higher price they are charging you and they are lying to you about it. If the quality is less there WILL be a difference in the part number (the manufactures such as motorcraft don't want their parts getting a bad name so they won't do this just to get teh contract with walmart, but what they do is since walmart buys in such huge quantities they get stuff at a huge discount and thus can sell it cheaper)
Now if someone says to me, "well I have to pay more then walmart does to get the stuff do to quantity discounts" and I or you want to support the local business then I say by all means (plus it's a 60 mile round trip drive for me to walmart so unles buying a lot of stuff not worth the drive) and most of the time I will pay the extra little bit for it until they lie to me like the above post.

As to the OP, fram has a reputation of exploding with higher pressures (the seams are really weak) and the filter media is flimsy and not as much so it can tear easily so won't even be filtering your oil (plus they go into bypass at like 10psi to prevent that so 98% of your oil goes through without ever seeing the filter) Now this is mainly with the standard quality filters not the HP line but basically I just don't trust those either because when you look at them they are still below the motorcraft line of filters for quality, my personal preference is motorcraft, or Wix (also NAPA gold which is relabeled Wix filters)

 

Interesting that so many hate Fram filters. If they are so bad, why does Consumers Union use them as the standard to compare everybody elses filter to? In over 45 years of being a car guy I have never had a Fram filter fail. Just lucky, I doubt it.

 

well Bear I ain't quite as old as you and I have personally seen 4 of them blown apart and cut apart another one after an engine failure and found the filter media basically didn't exist inside the case anymore. guess just unlucky or maybe they really are junk.

Oh and I don't know who consumers union is but I do know who some of the labs that do testing are that place them at the bottom of the pile when it comes to filters qualtity.


One thing to note if you have looked at the tests shown, fram has the LEAST amount of actual filter media at 47 inches worth, next in line is 64 and it goes up to 112 inches in the typical filter tested (these were based on the ford standard passenger car fl1a and equivelant filter)

BTW did you know fram hasnt actually made filters in years, they are actually made by Honeywell.

 

Consumers Union is a testing group that takes no monies for advertizing from anyone so their tests are totally unbiased as compared to car magazines who are bought with advertizing dollars. I would trust them over anyone elses tests.

Consumers Union

 

aw yes consumer reports, we all KNOW how unbiased they are. have you ever Actually LOOKED at some of the stuff they say is the best. Hey go look at consumer reports about 1997 toyota pickups, you know the ones they claimed were the best there is and the ones that are now under a total manufactures recall for breaking in half.
Consumer reports has gotten a lot of black eyes in teh past 10yrs and even though I used to look at what they reported since about 1999 I would be more inclined to go look at the top 5 of anything they suggest and stay away from.

BTW just searched that web site and hmmm can't find where they tested oil filters

But when doing a search for consumer reports on oil filter I ran across them testing oil and at the bottom found a link to a page you might find interesting, espeically since it makes the comment about fram having only half the filter media of other brands and how the guy doing the looking won't ever use them again.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/S...iltertech.html

 

Your buddy is full of it. I don't think I've ever seen a parts store. good bad or otherwise, without Fram filters. If they are so bad why are they still around?

 

Fram still meets or exceeds manufacturers specs. in saying so cut them both open and the fram should have as many pleats and have as much filament in it as the fords. That may not be the whole story guys. its not always all about the number of them, you have to remember the paper may allow a smaller micron particle size through it. i dont know the numbers of any of them just throwin that out there. but i do know about it meeting or exceeding oem specs.

 

actually northing it doesn NOT meet or exceed what the manufacturer makes for their own filters it meets what they require as a minimum for the engine. As to waht is in them, the fram has
34 pleats
47.3 inches of element length for a total of 193 square inches of filter medium

motorcraft filter has
64 pleats
100 inches of elemient length for a total of 400 square inches of filter medium

So no the fram filter not only doesn't exceed it, it doesn't even match or and in fact doesnt even come close. oh and fram doesn't pass SAE requirements but that testing is optional for oil filters.

 

Now why would any engine manufacture set as their standard spec for an oil filter below what they sell. Makes absolutely no sense.

Way back when I was still in the military, I worked part time at a dyno shop. We sold Ac filters and one day the Ac rep came around with a new van with an oil filter tester in it. Machine oil with a red dye (IIRC 10 microns) in the main tank with a pump, then valves to route the oil to the filter of your choice then into another tank so you could see how effective the filter was. The so call high performance filters were the worse for filtering. That night after a few beers, he admitted the all the major brands standard filter were pretty much able to get the job done. So from the Ac guys mouth to my ears. I say if Consumers Union says they are as good, then you guys aren't gonna change my mind with your numbers or unsupported speculation.

 

Gee Bear I don't know why an engine manufacture would make a minimum spec for an oil filter for their engines but produce a filter that was much superiour in quality I mean your right that makes no sense whatsoever.
As to the not going to change your mind, well good for you glad it works and great deal but from all the searching I just did consumers union (which actually doesn't exist anymore BTW) NEVER tested oil filters, they tested oils and they link to a couple web sites about it (all of which say not to use fram filters BTW) but THEY never tested them, I spent almost an hour searching their websites and not one single oil filter test to be found.
But hey don't let me change your mind, don't let the major race teams change yhour mind (even ones sponsered by fram ONLY use the top of the line special filters made special for them by fram, and wouldn't even let a standard fram near their lawn mowers) don't let the fact that if you search there are a lot of hits dealing with fram filters blowing apart at the seams or rupturing, or just plain exploding.
actually bear have you ever wondered why fram had to come out with so many "grades" of filters? If the standard fram filter that is cheap is so wonderful why then did they have to come out with the extra guard (has thicker walls and better filter media and is actually made by yet another company and re badged as a fram) or the HP series (once again made by someone else and better filtering and stronger case) or the other couple versions? The reason is the fram filter that is actually competitively priced with other much better filters is actually junk. go look at the fram filters that are on race cars and you will find they don't bear any resemblance to what you can buy at wally world or Orielies.
But don't let us dissuade you from using them

 

Your answer tells me you never owned your own business or ran one for someone.

 

Okay if Someone else hasn't done it by the time I get back from the Tulsa Ford show I will go to Wal-Mart and buy a Fram filter take it home and cut it open so You can see what's inside. If You would ever just do this to some of the thing You buy many of them would never grace You door again.