Firestone air bags
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 31
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From: So.Cal
Firestone air bags
Hi all,
I have a 2000 SD with air bags I originally installed when the thuck was new. They have been great, but now I am running a large Lance Camper and find that they hold the truck level ok but the truck sways as the majority (all) of the load is on the air bags. So..my truck did not have the factory overload spring on top, so I bought all the parts from Ford and added them so I can get contact on my overloads when the camper is on the truck. There is a product that goes in place of the rubber bumpers on the stop pads which is much thicker and allows earlier contact, thus controlling sway. OK, all that and to my question.
When I installed the factory overload, it raised the base of my air bags 1" thus causing the air bag to be compressed more, the measurement of the air bag deflated (top to bottom) is only 4-3/4". I can't relocate the top bracket as the holes are already drilled and they are at the top of the frame anyway. Does any one know if this is too "tight" will it cause damage to the air bags perhaps hitting the stops? Any advise is as always appreciated.
Brad
I have a 2000 SD with air bags I originally installed when the thuck was new. They have been great, but now I am running a large Lance Camper and find that they hold the truck level ok but the truck sways as the majority (all) of the load is on the air bags. So..my truck did not have the factory overload spring on top, so I bought all the parts from Ford and added them so I can get contact on my overloads when the camper is on the truck. There is a product that goes in place of the rubber bumpers on the stop pads which is much thicker and allows earlier contact, thus controlling sway. OK, all that and to my question.
When I installed the factory overload, it raised the base of my air bags 1" thus causing the air bag to be compressed more, the measurement of the air bag deflated (top to bottom) is only 4-3/4". I can't relocate the top bracket as the holes are already drilled and they are at the top of the frame anyway. Does any one know if this is too "tight" will it cause damage to the air bags perhaps hitting the stops? Any advise is as always appreciated.
Brad
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
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From: Texas
I guess that would depend on which model # bags you have. I thought 5" was the minimum on most of the outboard airbags.
Maybe check their website and see if you can find the info on the installation instructions for your model. Vehicle Applications
Maybe check their website and see if you can find the info on the installation instructions for your model. Vehicle Applications
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,881
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From: Wake Forest, NC
How do you like the fact that you have to install those extra bump stops to get the overload to even work. It's been one of my pet peeves with the Ford springs w/ camper package or overloads like you installed. I have installed the Firestones like you indicate. Assuming the kit is setup the same, and you have the double convoluted air bag, I have had no issues on trucks with the overload spring. Carry on!
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Freshman User
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From: So.Cal
Hi, thanks for the response. I agree, perhaps an engineering change is in order, once the airbags are used, it virtually eliminates the overload spring unless we use the torklift or the "super spring" brand extra large pad. The mistake I made was the fact that I installed the airbags originally without the overload spring and wedge. As it turns out, the wedge (fulcrum) for the overload is wedge shaped and it caused the top of the spring pack to be level now as opposed to before it was tilted slightly forward. When I drilled the holes for the top bracket on the air bag, I left it pitched forward so it followed the same angle as the axle upon compression. Now that the bottom plate is level the angle is wrong and more compressed. Thats the story of my life though, I would not expect anything else with this kind of stuff. I'll try to contact Firestone on Monday and see what they recommend short of buying new bags (which is what I might have to do) which require "no drilling." Thanks BTW, the model number is 2071
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,069
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From: LONG ISLAND N.Y.
just my two cents....i was going to order the firestone bags recently and the guy at the truck shop said there was different bags for trucks with and without the overload springs,and also one more if you have a fifth wheel hitch.i hooked up my 8000lb. travel trailer and the decided i did'nt need them.hope that helps.
New User
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Lakeville, MN
Brad, how do you fill you bags? Are they both tied together? I know that if they are tied together the air kind of goes back and fourth. Roll to the right and pushes air in to the left side (my opinion making it worse lifting the left). I know it helped a ton when I separated them for hauling 2000lb pallet of salt in the bed.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: PHOENIX
Brad, how do you fill you bags? Are they both tied together? I know that if they are tied together the air kind of goes back and fourth. Roll to the right and pushes air in to the left side (my opinion making it worse lifting the left). I know it helped a ton when I separated them for hauling 2000lb pallet of salt in the bed.
The license plate holes make excellent locations to mount your air valves.
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: So.Cal
They are seperated, (from birth) My problem is more of the bags not having enough space to operate up and down. I just spoke to Firestone and they are suggesting I either weld the brackets in the new proper location to the frame or fabricate the brackets, either way, they are not going to work the way they are. So, I will remove them today and take the brackets to a welder and see what they can do..Thanks again.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Wake Forest, NC
With that kit, and the overload spring now, there should be no reason it doesn't work as expected without fabrication. Keep in mind that if you have your bed loaded at all or your factory springs have sagged some the static measurement will be off.
Now, the problem with them being tilted because of the angle is important as they work best and longest if they operate in line to the load. But keep in mine as well with this that Firestone provides spacers in 1/2 inch increments, 1/2 and 1 inch to be exact. So it would seem that adjustment to within 1/2 inch is acceptable for the operation of the bag. You are within 1/4 inch.
Having used this setup on several trucks, most of which have saggy springs, I have seen no problem with the operation of it below the minimum spec. When they are inflated, it brings them back up to that position. I feel that firestone is assuming a healthy rear suspension when specifying that height, and the users desire to maintain that height.
Firestone is of course the expert on their product assumably.
Now, the problem with them being tilted because of the angle is important as they work best and longest if they operate in line to the load. But keep in mine as well with this that Firestone provides spacers in 1/2 inch increments, 1/2 and 1 inch to be exact. So it would seem that adjustment to within 1/2 inch is acceptable for the operation of the bag. You are within 1/4 inch.
Having used this setup on several trucks, most of which have saggy springs, I have seen no problem with the operation of it below the minimum spec. When they are inflated, it brings them back up to that position. I feel that firestone is assuming a healthy rear suspension when specifying that height, and the users desire to maintain that height.
Firestone is of course the expert on their product assumably.
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Freshman User
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From: So.Cal
You are correct! I have been working on this thing all day, trying to figure out how to modify the brackets, etc..guess what, my springs are shot! I finally figured it out, the air bags should of worked because like you said, there is a range in which they are spec'd to work in (5-6.5 inches) and once I finished installing the overload springs, I noticed the driver side was already touching the overload and that's with no rubber pads yet! Anyway, once the springs are re-arched or replaced (which is better?) from the spring shop about 20 minutes from my house, there will be sufficient clearance for the bags, no other fabrication needed. If the repair raises my truck in the rear one inch, it would be perfect. Thanks for the advice!
Brad
Brad
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,881
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From: Wake Forest, NC
I would have them replaced. Once they sag, they will sag again. At this point I would say aftermarket springs would be better since I have seen so many factory springs sag. The last truck I just did is an 07 with 50k on it and they are sagged already. I'm not sure mine haven't settled a fair amount already, they are a year old in the back. They certainly don't carry a load very well.
If you are going to have them redone any way, it may be worth it to get heavier springs while you are in there. They can also build them so you won't need the rubber bumpers for the overloads to work better. There are a lot of options and they should be able to advise you well on your setup.
If you are going to have them redone any way, it may be worth it to get heavier springs while you are in there. They can also build them so you won't need the rubber bumpers for the overloads to work better. There are a lot of options and they should be able to advise you well on your setup.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 904
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From: PHOENIX
Look for new "used" springs if your vehicle is stock in height. Like mentioned, re-arched springs will never last as long as original.
Check e-bay or your local 4x4 shops. There should be plenty of stock springs available from people who put lift kits on. I sold mine on e-bay to the winning bidder for 12bucks plus something like a hundred for shipping.
Check e-bay or your local 4x4 shops. There should be plenty of stock springs available from people who put lift kits on. I sold mine on e-bay to the winning bidder for 12bucks plus something like a hundred for shipping.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 23,174
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From: Stephensville WI
I am surprised no one suggested Timbrens.
Vehicle Suspension Kits - Timbren Suspension Enhancement Systems
Also, on the air bags, since you didn't install them, are they fed with one air fitting, then the hose tee's off to the bags? From what I understand, that is incorrect. When a heavy load is applied to one side it will force air back to the opposite bag, adding to the sway.
Vehicle Suspension Kits - Timbren Suspension Enhancement Systems
Also, on the air bags, since you didn't install them, are they fed with one air fitting, then the hose tee's off to the bags? From what I understand, that is incorrect. When a heavy load is applied to one side it will force air back to the opposite bag, adding to the sway.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,881
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From: Wake Forest, NC
It's not inherently incorrect, but you are right that setup can add to sway because of the transfer of air. Just by themselves, regardless of the plumbing, airbags can add to sway because they take some of the weight off the springs and shackles themselves and put it on a point load over the axle. Since air springs have no rigidity or lateral stability for that matter, it increases the possibility of sway. I would wager in theory a track bar would eliminate this possibility.