flash point by definition is the temp at which a substance ignites due to ambient temp, or temp created by pressure. Since the piston is on the way up, building pressure and temp as it rises, the oil will burn BEFORE the diesel would NORMALLY ignite. The extra BTU from the oil burning would ignite surrounding fuel, I.E. diesel. Since the oil ignites BEFORE the diesel would normally, the piston would still be on its way up, before top dead center, I.E. preignition.

 

I guess I have to eat some of my words. "Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons." Oil has a higher flash point than diesel, ignites at a higher temp. Still going to burn slower and after the diesel which has a lower flash point. Or we all know what gas does in a diesel or if you leave to much #1 fuel in when it warms up. Your engine goes nuts because the combustion is not controlled and the fuel ignites to soon. Here is a chart I found that shows the flash temp. There is no engine oil and the gear oil flash temp is, i'm sure is much higher than 2 stroke oil. And in all honesty the diesel flash points are pretty close anyway.
I hope I got this right, anyway.
Fuel Flash Point
(oF)
Acetaldehyde -36
Acetone 0
Benzene 12
Carbon Disulfide -22
Diesel Fuel (1-D) 100
Diesel Fuel (2-D) 125
Diesel Fuel (4-D) 130
Ethyl Alcohol 55
Fuels Oil No.1 100 - 162
Fuels Oil No.2 126 - 204
Fuels Oil No.4 142 - 240
Fuels Oil No.5 Lite 156 - 336
Fuels Oil No.5 Heavy 160 - 250
Fuels Oil No.6 150
Gasoline -45
Gear oil 375 - 580
Iso-Butane -117
Iso-Pentane less than -60
Iso-Octane 10
Kerosine 100 - 162
Methyl Alcohol 52
Motor oil 420 - 485
n-Butane -76
n-Pentane less than -40
n-Hexane -7
n-Heptane 25
n-Octane 56
Naphthalene 174
NeoHexane -54
Propane -156
Styrene 90
Toluene 40
Xylene 63

 

I add 20 oz of Wally World 2 stroke oil per tank and have been doing so for several months. My achievements are nothing but my opinions as it's next to impossible for me, with my driving style to run a controlled check.

My opinions are:

1) My engine sounds quieter but.....I'm half deaf but it's still quieter than
it was. (Too me)

2) It idles as smooth as the inside of a school marms thigh, Really

3) I get 16-18 MPG in town and short freeway jonts. I drive the limit and use Cruise control when ever I can.

4) Down side: I have a Turbo Timer and never shut it off over 300* pre turbo. (New 1.0 Turbo from Ron with gutted pedestal)

5) Starts quick and I see no smoke and I have no blow by to speak of.

6) I don't recall all of these plus factors before using 2 stroke oil, but then again I probably wasn't looking for them either. But this is the way things are now.

Does 2 stroke oil work?? I think each of us, based on our individual driving styles need to evaluate our own rigs because there is no two of us alike.

If I drove like the RubberDuck (I saw the Video, Great stuff) I could expect 8-10 MPG, maybe, If the RD drove like MadVan he would see millage in the high 20's. This is nothing against the RD or MadVan they just happen to be great examples of opposite driving styles. I wish to hell I could do what the Duck does but I would have to pimp myself out just to buy fuel and if you think about it I would be on that corner a very, very long time just to get to smell some diesel.lol

Rog

 

Just a few notes not really for the oil additive discussion but the 2 stroke and other discussion. A 2 stroke engine really has nothing to do with crankcase oil or not. It has to do with intake and exhaust ports and only having 2 piston stokes to complete they combustion cycle. There are plenty of diesel 2 stroke engines that have an oil sump.

Also precombustion of the oil isn't a concern since the oil is injected precisely by the fuel injector. The oil while to may burn faster or slower than the fuel but precombustion won't be an issue.

 

In my Van
I use 1/2oz per gal.
I have found the motor to be quieter and a very small drop in egt. (idle/driving). Have found no other gains. Its possible the oil has an effect on the idle, mpg, ect just cannot say for shure do to its so minor, and has too many variables.
My van has 8 AB inj's and i refuse to use a AF inj. An AF inj is unheard of by many. An AF inj is a LL-AB as a AE is a LL-AD. The LL inj just shoot a little more fuel per stroke.

Bill

 

the only 2 stroke deisels I know of is the old detroit 53,71 and 92 series engines,i have built and dynoed plenty of them,,all others are 4 stroke...wayne

 

2 stroke motor has no crank case oil to lube cylinders, connecting rods, etc.. Our diesels have crank case oil to do so, that was kinda my point, I wasnt too clear on that.

I thought that the ignition did NOT happen at the exact moment of injection. I thought it was withing a VERY small time frame of it, but I thought that t was just before enough pressure was built to ignite the fuel. I thought that the lower flash point would ignite DURING the injection process, and this is why the motor was quieter. Much like the NBS split shots, or piolit shot injection. Am I wrong? IS the ignition point DURING the injection process?? If it is, then my theory doesnt hold water. IF its NOT, then I think I have a prety insightful arguement being made here....

 

Just a wag here ,, I assumed the quiet part comes from more lubricity & cusion to the injectors...The opposite happens when you run gasoline Instead of diesel ...

No real life experience ,,just a thought ..Once the oil is mixed with the fuel It will still ignite all at the same time ,rather than separately , the flash point may have changed some ,but I would bet not much ...May not be a connection, but in a gasser ,if the fuel ignites early ,you get detonation .. again....Just a thought....

By the way,,525.. my apologies for being an *** the other day ...I over reacted to your comment ,,,,

 

To the best of my knowledge the combustion event starts at injection. The timing of a diesel is done so that as the intake air is compressed and heated the cylinder is ready for combustion as the fuel is injected. Now there may be a lag of a few tenths of a millisecond but that is how I understand it to work.

The biggest reason there is a reduction of noise with the 2 stroke is the lubrication it provides to the injectors. Our injectors are noisy! I recently became aware of just how noisy they were when running my first batch of home brew Biodiesel. cruising about the only noise I could hear was my exhaust. I could barely hear the injectors.

 

Didn't you tell me a split shot Inj injects a small amount early , to make sure there is sufficient heat to completely burn the main injection ,,to reduce emissions ?...(not real sure )

 

Yep thats what they do. Fuel sucking, HPO using, quiet pieces of garbage!

BTW: super sucker finally sucks after spending $180! Oh well it works now!

 

Cool.. It was a "sucking" sucker before ....glad to hear its finally living up to its name ...

 

So if I add anywhere form a 1/4 oz to 1 oz per gallon I should be good?

 

So what about the time old rumor of adding auto tranny fluid to fuel to lube injectors? That would be a step up in the lube department wouldnt it? I have run it a few times, some OLD time truckers I know swear by it, run a few quarts in every tank full, and I know a few of them that have turned the 1 mill mark without the need for a rebuild.

I am going to research the diesel injection/ combustion process to see EXACTLY when combustion takes place. I am VERY curious to know now if its lube that makes it quiet, or the lowering of the flash point I.E. preignition, detonation, or however you want to call it.

Action, No worries bro, I am thick skinned. I come here to vent too, sometimes I can be taken the wrong way with the words I type, and the sounds I speak. I mean no harm, I have a very unusual sence of humor.........

 

This may apply here ... its from the 99 & up section...


I won't repeat them all, but I'll try to address most of your points. This reference gives some of the details used in my discussion below... Let's Talk Injection Timing, TQ, HP, & EGT... https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...p-and-egt.html ...and as shown in the pic in post #1, there's a critical time interval between the start of fuel injection, the start of combustion, and the build up to peak cylinder pressure. This peak pressure should occur at about 20*ATDC for any RPM and load condition, and the injection timing and pulse duration needs to be adjusted to the proper values to accomplish this. A gasser ingests a fairly homogenous mixture of fuel and air into multiple cylinders at the same time so no matter how high the RPM there's always a combustible mixture ready to fire when the time is right, but a gasser only fires one cylinder at a time, and the timing advance depends on RPM and load (ignition delay depends on the amount of fuel) so as to maintain a peak cylinder pressure at about 20* ATDC. A diesel ingests only air into multiple cylinders at the same time, and then must inject the fuel so that it auto ignites and then reaches peak cylinder pressure at the correct time. Auto-ignition requires some chemical pre-reactions which in turn require some heat due to compressing the air. If fuel is injected too early, there's not enough heat of compression developed to vaporize the fuel and you get a lot of cylinder wash, and peak pressure rises too soon and places a large force on the rod while it's near TDC. If the PW is too long so that fuel is injected too late, it's still burning during the exhaust stroke which leads to excessive EGT. There's only a limited interval of crankshaft degrees over which fuel can be safely injected, which I've estimated to be about 10*. At 3000 RPM 1*=55.55 us of time delay, so a typical ignition delay of 1000 us is 18*, and an additional 500 us of delay to achieve peak pressure is 9*, and assuming the injection pulse is about 555 us (10*) in duration, an injection advance of about 18+9+10-20 = 17* BTDC should give the peak pressure at about 20* ATDC, and this in turn should optimize the MEP at this RPM. In the above example fuel is injected from 17* BTDC to 7* BTDC, and if you include an additional 560 us time delay for a stock IDM to turn on a stock injector, you see that a total IDM output pulse of only 1115 us is all that's required to inject fuel over this 10* interval. At your example of 3700 RPM, 1*=45 us so that a PW=450 us is all that's required if fuel is injected over a 10* interval, and the additional 560 us time delay for a stock IDM gives 1010 us. Now at 1500 RPM, this becomes 2 x 555 us + 560 us = 1670 us as the required IDM output pulse duration, which is why I claimed at higher RPM you want a shorter pulse duration, not a longer one. The RPM limitation of a diesel is due to the relatively long time delay that's required for auto-ignition and the build up to peak pressure, which is typically about 1000 us and 500 us respectively. At lower RPM like 1500, this requires only an additional 13.5* advance, but at 6000 RPM there's a 2x18 = 36* delay due to auto-ignition, and a 2x9 = 18* delay to reach peak pressure! At 3000 RPM, you can start injection at 17* BTDC and make peak pressure at 20* ATDC, but at 6000 RPM you'd have to start injection at about 36+18+10-20 = 44* BTDC, and there's not enough heat of compression developed at 44* BTDC to avoid cylinder wall wash down. This is one reason why multiple injections per combustion event are used in newer engines, so that small squirts of fuel can be injected early on without washing down the cylinder wall. Also, modern CR injection uses 30,000 psi so they can inject more fuel in the shorter time that's available at higher RPM. The newest approach for diesels is the HCCI= Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition engine which is somewhat like a gasser in that it uses a premixed homogeneous fuel-air charge that's then compressed to cause auto-ignition, but unlike the heterogeneous mixture which results from current fuel injectors, the homogeneous fuel-air charge ignites very quickly somewhat like in a spark ignition gasser. Now, an 8 cylinder 4 cycle engine has one power stroke every 90*, and fuel can only safely be injected over about a 10* interval during each power stroke. So, just how do you propose to fire more than one injector at a time, and could you present a candidate timing for each injector firing in both crankshaft degrees and IDM pulse durations like I did in my examples.