Front Brake Pads Gone Wrong!!!
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 870
Likes: 0
From: Mountaintop, PA
I would consider upgrading your technique. I agree, on older vehicles you could push the brakes back into the caliper without opening the bleeder.
Anyway, why would you want to puch all of that brake fluid that took and saw all of that heat and moisture and possibly air and push it up into the brake line?
Fleet Owner
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 28,290
Likes: 6
From: BLT, MN
Thats interesting Kwik. I would have thought that when the pedal was released that it would pull air into the line if you did not close the bleeder. I like this. Way easier. Would this not be a job one person could do then?
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 857
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I know that this doesn't have any bearing on the pedal going to the floor, but I had a horrble experience with NAPA ceramic pads on my 2000 E350 PSD. The adhesion of those hard pads was absolutely horrible and they didn't even have enough grip to lock the rotors or engage the antilock regardless of how much pedal pressure you used. After several close calls in two weeks time, I removed them and installed Carquest stock specification pads and once again had good brakes. I'll never use ceramics again!
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,292
Likes: 6
From: Ardenvoir, Washington
I love this forum .. found out i have been changing pads wrong. thanks Pullinair..
found more info on google written by a mechanic:
If your vehicle has antilock brakes, changing the pads is a bit different than what most people are used to. With a normal (non-ABS) car, you just unbolt the caliper, press apart the old pads to retract the piston, then replace the pads. This procedure forces much of the brake fluid out of the caliper and back into the master cylinder. The fluid is put back once you step on the brakes.
With an ABS vehicle, you CAN'T force the fluid back; if you do you'll damage the ABS valve body . Instead, you must open the caliper bleed screw and drain the excess fluid out of the caliper while you press the piston back into the bore. This is very important! If you force the dirty, water-contaminated fluid back through the relatively fragile valve body, you'll ruin it.
Also, did you know that you are supposed to replace all of the brake fluid in an ABS vehicle once each year? That's different from older-style cars too.
found more info on google written by a mechanic:
If your vehicle has antilock brakes, changing the pads is a bit different than what most people are used to. With a normal (non-ABS) car, you just unbolt the caliper, press apart the old pads to retract the piston, then replace the pads. This procedure forces much of the brake fluid out of the caliper and back into the master cylinder. The fluid is put back once you step on the brakes.
With an ABS vehicle, you CAN'T force the fluid back; if you do you'll damage the ABS valve body . Instead, you must open the caliper bleed screw and drain the excess fluid out of the caliper while you press the piston back into the bore. This is very important! If you force the dirty, water-contaminated fluid back through the relatively fragile valve body, you'll ruin it.
Also, did you know that you are supposed to replace all of the brake fluid in an ABS vehicle once each year? That's different from older-style cars too.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
I love this forum .. found out i have been changing pads wrong. thanks Pullinair..
found more info on google written by a mechanic:
If your vehicle has antilock brakes, changing the pads is a bit different than what most people are used to. With a normal (non-ABS) car, you just unbolt the caliper, press apart the old pads to retract the piston, then replace the pads. This procedure forces much of the brake fluid out of the caliper and back into the master cylinder. The fluid is put back once you step on the brakes.
With an ABS vehicle, you CAN'T force the fluid back; if you do you'll damage the ABS valve body . Instead, you must open the caliper bleed screw and drain the excess fluid out of the caliper while you press the piston back into the bore. This is very important! If you force the dirty, water-contaminated fluid back through the relatively fragile valve body, you'll ruin it.
Also, did you know that you are supposed to replace all of the brake fluid in an ABS vehicle once each year? That's different from older-style cars too.
found more info on google written by a mechanic:
If your vehicle has antilock brakes, changing the pads is a bit different than what most people are used to. With a normal (non-ABS) car, you just unbolt the caliper, press apart the old pads to retract the piston, then replace the pads. This procedure forces much of the brake fluid out of the caliper and back into the master cylinder. The fluid is put back once you step on the brakes.
With an ABS vehicle, you CAN'T force the fluid back; if you do you'll damage the ABS valve body . Instead, you must open the caliper bleed screw and drain the excess fluid out of the caliper while you press the piston back into the bore. This is very important! If you force the dirty, water-contaminated fluid back through the relatively fragile valve body, you'll ruin it.
Also, did you know that you are supposed to replace all of the brake fluid in an ABS vehicle once each year? That's different from older-style cars too.
Rebuild time.
.
VW and Audi have been recommending brake flushes every two year regardless of mileage driven for a very long time now. Even before the days of ABS brakes.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,661
Likes: 0
From: Bridgewater, VA
Ok guys gotta update. Bled the brakes and no go. Still had a mushy brake pedal. 
So i decided to pull the rear wheels off and check them (why not). Turns out the passenger side caliper let go of the inside brake pad, which in turn wore on the rotor, which in turn made the pistons in the caliper push against the rotor, which in turn broke the top piston on the caliper, which in turn means im SOL
. Sooooo right now my dad and cousin are buying and installing a new rotor, caliper and a set of carquest ceramic's. Will update if this fixes the problem. Also would suggest everyone to check to see if their pads are sitting right. ughhhhhhh
So i decided to pull the rear wheels off and check them (why not). Turns out the passenger side caliper let go of the inside brake pad, which in turn wore on the rotor, which in turn made the pistons in the caliper push against the rotor, which in turn broke the top piston on the caliper, which in turn means im SOL. Sooooo right now my dad and cousin are buying and installing a new rotor, caliper and a set of carquest ceramic's. Will update if this fixes the problem. Also would suggest everyone to check to see if their pads are sitting right. ughhhhhhh
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Bridgewater, VA
Yea i hope so. But why would a caliper just let go of a pad like that. the pad looks fine other than the thrashed side where it rubbed and the caliper has all the retaining clips still. Just not making sense right now. I will try to put up some pics of it tonight.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
.
Another reason I never turn rotors. New ones every time.
$$$$, yes, but look at the alternative.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Bridgewater, VA
No never turned. Honestly, the other 3 pads weren't that bad of shape and i've had the truck 2 years and we've never done brakes (i inspect them every time i rotate tires). That's why i'm kinda shocked.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Bridgewater, VA
OK update on this. Went ahead and did a new rotor and caliper. Install easy. Bled the rears. Still had a mushy pedal. So i bled the fronts... still to the floor. Sooo i rebled the entire system front to back and pumped the crap outta them. This seemed to fix it. Got the rotor and caliper for $104 plus the $52 core for a grand total of $156. Just an update for everyone. Thankyou all for your help
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 780
Likes: 1
From: Chicago suburbs
Bleed out the brakes.
Better yet, flush it out. It takes two people, one at the wheel and the other inside the cab pumping the pedal.
Get a bottle and a two foot piece of fuel line that will fit snugly over the nipple of the bleeder. Put the wrench on the bleeder valve, then install the hose over that and insert the other end of the hose into the bottle. Open the bleeder valve 1/3 turn. Partner at this time begins to pump the brake pedal, with a 3 second pause at the top of the stoke to allow the master cylinder to refill. 10 stroke minimum per wheel. On the last stroke, partner holds the pedal all the way down, then you close the bleeder valve. Refill the reservoir between each wheel.
RR, LR, RF, LF wheel in that order. From the longest to the shortest.
That will purge all the air from the system and will also get nice new fresh fluid throughout the entire brake system, including the ABS unit.
Been using that technique for 25+ years now.
Better yet, flush it out. It takes two people, one at the wheel and the other inside the cab pumping the pedal.
Get a bottle and a two foot piece of fuel line that will fit snugly over the nipple of the bleeder. Put the wrench on the bleeder valve, then install the hose over that and insert the other end of the hose into the bottle. Open the bleeder valve 1/3 turn. Partner at this time begins to pump the brake pedal, with a 3 second pause at the top of the stoke to allow the master cylinder to refill. 10 stroke minimum per wheel. On the last stroke, partner holds the pedal all the way down, then you close the bleeder valve. Refill the reservoir between each wheel.
RR, LR, RF, LF wheel in that order. From the longest to the shortest.
That will purge all the air from the system and will also get nice new fresh fluid throughout the entire brake system, including the ABS unit.
Been using that technique for 25+ years now.
Or you can do it your self by using Speed Bleeders at each calipers. Makes it a single user job.
Dave..
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