Haven't been here in quite a while since my Aero lost its timing chain about 2 1/2 years ago, but something has me considering another Aerostar.

Due to progression of my disability, I'm in the process of getting a power wheelchair. I'm wondering if the wheelchair would fit in the area normally reserved for the passenger seat.

Can someone please measure the area from the door panel to the right side of the driver's seat? (I won't have a center console most likely.)

I'm thinking that with some appropriate ramps (which I can load/unload myself), I can, standing beside the chair, drive it backwards up the ramp and neatly into the open space that the passenger seat would normally occupy.

The chair can't deal with inclines greater than 9 degrees (Or so the manual says..), so I'm also wondering how long the ramps would need to be when placed on level ground for this to work. If someone could measure the interior floor height to ground also, and compute the appropriate ramp lengths, I'd appreciate it.

Lastly, the chair weighs in at 277 pounds unoccupied. Given that I want the the ramp(s) to weigh as little as possible, what sort of material would be suitable? I don't want something that will deform easily, as I have to be able to load/unload the chair reliably, without assistance.

I'd like to be able to give exact measurements of my powerchair, but I don't have it yet. Insurance should have it approved by this time next week or sooner. Then my provider has to order it, assemble it, test it, and bring it out to me. If anyone else here has one, here's the model: "Invacare TDX SP w/ Van Seat"

Thanks.

 

I looked into this when my father became paralyzed.

The width between the passenger door to the right edge of the driver's seat is 30", but the transmission hump is at 20", and it doesn't flatten out until it gets to the rear edge of the front seats. You will be better off removing the second row seat and stowing the wheel chair there.

On my 4wd van, the height to the first step to the sliding door is about 18", and to the floor is about 22". A 9 degree slope up to 22" is going to take about about 12 feet of ramp, so that's not going to be practical. Most setups use some kind of assist, such as a puller on a shorter ramp or an elevator, going into either the side or rear door, securing behind the front seats.

 

My goal is to leave the area behind the front seats untouched, with the exception of ramp storage.

I forgot to mention also, the chair being considered for me is a 6 wheel model (the type that can turn around in their own space) and has suspension that can crest obstacles up to 3 inches high.

Also, if I recall correctly, AWD vans are a bit taller than the 2WD version I'd be considering. I'm not sure if these factors would make a difference though.

If I had to use a shorter ramp length, can you give me any info on what sort of power assist system you considered? I'd like to avoid the expense of a built-in manual/power ramp or lift, since those solutions, in addition to being extremely pricey, are failure prone and they take up a fair amount of useful interior space.

I just remembered that the approximate dimensions are listed in the manual I downloaded from Invacare's web site:

"Typical Product Parameters"
Base Length: 25.25 inches
Overall Width of Base: 24 inches (w/o Joystick)
Overall Height w/ Van Seat: 38 to 45 inches
Overall Length w/ Center Mount Front Rigging: 42.9 inches

I have no idea what it means by "Center Mount Front Rigging". If they're referring to the footboard, those can be stowed by flipping them into the vertical position flat against the battery box of the chair.

It has a note that all dimensions are plus or minus 0.50 inch.

When I demoed the chair a few weeks ago, I do recall being struck by just how small it was. I was expecting it to be much larger.

If necessary, I can follow it up a shorter ramp from behind and give it some assistance to hopefully do a steeper incline than 9 degrees, although I'd have to find a way to brace myself on something. (Roof line, door, etc..)

When I think about the 9 degree incline warning in the manual, I can't help but think they wrote that assuming that I'd be driving the chair, not loading it empty by manipulating the joystick while standing next to the chair.

After all, it *is* 277 pounds, mostly centered directly in the middle of the chair on the bottom, with the batteries, motors, and controller electronics. I wouldn't expect it to tip over easily on a sharper incline, as long as I'm not sitting in it on the ramp.

Also, if you're curious as to why I'm considering such a solution:

1) Financial limitations
2) Previous good experiences with Aerostars vs. 'Other' Vans

My previous van may have lost its timing chain at the worst possible time, but I have to consider that a fluke. Otherwise, it was rock solid, and oddly, was the only vehicle I have ever owned that beat its EPA MPG ratings consistently.

 

Hi SweetBearCub!

You are right about the ride hight of AWD vs RWD. I believe there is around a 3" difference, but maybe someone with a RWD will give you more of an exact number.

As for what to do to convert it, I am not sure. The only thing that I can think of is maybe looking up a couple conversion places online that might be close to you and get some quotes on lifts/ramps on an Aero. I know that there have been a few that were converted for lifts, maybe try finding a used one online. It would be cheaper than converting an existing one.

I really wish I could be more help, but this subject is outside my realm of knowlege.

 

You might want to take a look at this one.....

eBay Motors: Ford : Aerostar (item 110238793282 end time Apr-06-08 17:58:49 PDT)

 

I own an Aerostar and think it is great, BUT, for you the best choice might be the Dodge Caravan because of the much lower floor height. It is one reason these are popular with upgraders for wheelchair lifts.

 

cookkd,

I appreciate the link, but that is what I am trying to avoid like the plague. 95% of vans with a lift or ramp built in cost about $5,000 or more over the cost of the van, and that's *if* the lift equipment is functioning properly. They also don't usually come with any warranties on the lift equipment, and not many shops repair it. Just like it's not cheap to purchase, it's also not cheap to repair.

Also, when you buy a van with built-in lift equipment, you miss something else: Choice of the base vehicle and what options it does or doesn't have. I've looked at the mileage figures for the AWD vans (Which the one in the auction most likely is) and they are atrocious! They also come with extra baggage (literally) when it comes to repairs, making them more expensive to maintain.

I can still walk, I'm just limited in how long I can be on my feet for, and I can drive fine. I'd like to find an Extended-Length Aerostar w/ a 3.0L V-6 coupled to a 5-Speed Manual, which should get over 25mpg on the Interstate. (the Aero was built as a highway cruiser, and I find it easy to get better mileage than the EPA says..)

The only options that I need/want are A/C (Front Only) and Cruise Control. I'd love to have a digital dash & trip computer, but that's another ball of yarn entirely. After spending some time getting the engine tuned up and all the fluids & filters changed (to full synthetics), swapping the clutch-driven fan for an electric one, and getting the stereo & speakers swapped for something that can make proper use of the interior volume as a mobile acoustical chamber, I'll be set. I may or may not have the back seats/captain's chair in as needs dictate.

Basically, I'd like to buy a regular Aerostar where I can choose its trim level & options and modify it to load my power wheelchair via hand-stowed ramps in place of the passenger seat. That leaves me with a van that can carry 5 passengers, or 6 if I use a second rear bench in place of the short middle bench (versus the 4 of most conversions) or that has its entire back area open to bulky cargo, something a normal conversion van absolutely cannot do.

I've also noticed that most handicapped conversions are regular minivans, with all their drawbacks, such as next to no ground clearance. The Aerostar, being more of a truck/mid-sized van, doesn't have that issue.

Next, insurance. Most insurers will cover conversions at a higher rate. If they're damaged in accidents, it's a crapshoot as to whether a rental company will have a suitably modified van to replace yours while it's being worked on, as most conversions are custom jobs, with any combination of lowered floors, raised roofs, power or non-power lifts & ramps, interior wheelchair space, securement points, hand driving controls, pedal extensions, etc. Some people even drive from their wheelchairs, and those vans have no driver's seat. As you might imagine, coordinating all of this with a rental company makes the chances of a match slim to none. As far as I know, my idea of parking the chair in place of the passenger seat would not incur any additional insurance hike, and if I needed a rental, it would be easier to take my hand-stowed ramps along, as long the van had sufficient space, instead of playing the "Do you have this conversion?" game.

Finally, price.

Average price for an Aerostar in my area: $2,400 (May vary up or down slightly)
Average price for a fully-working conversion w/ power lift: $9,600
How much I'll have: ~$3,000

Note that this reply was not intended to offend - I'm just trying to explain why a pre-made conversion is not up my alley.

 

I've ridden in Caravans, and they seem especially cramped compared to my former Aerostar, or even my former '96 Windstar. They also (still) have that nasty habit of eating transmissions in expensive ways as snacks.

 

Would it be possible for me to add a small electric winch to the right-side floor mounting point for my driver's seat (or even the inside of the left mounting point, for more room for the chair to park) and in turn, have a steeper/shorter ramp?

For example:
EW-20A @ $273.59

The winch seems to be rated at 1,000 pounds of pulling capacity horizontally, so in theory, my 277 pound chair should be no problem, even if, for example, it's raining outside and the wet ramps have no traction.

 

According to Ford's own specs, the AWD Aero has 1 more inch of ground clearance than the RWD version, so I'm thinking it's no more than 1" higher to the floor from the ground.

Invacare was one of the sites I looked at, and they were similar to most of the other sources. You probably noticed a similar theme among them; they all cost a few thousand dollars for similar equipment. We were looking at a lift as that took the least amount of outboard space. But I didn't know about the lack of the ability to get service on them.

I also thought about installing a winch to pull the chair up a steeper ramp (8 foot, or about 14 degrees), but I was looking at pulling through the rear. That meant removing at least the rear bench seat. I looked at mounting the winch in the anchors of the second bench seat. I would have to have the cable come straight out to attach to the center of the chair to keep it pulling straight. Obviously, my father would not be driving in his condition.

My parents ended up getting a Nissan Murano that with some assistance, my father could get in and out of. My mom didn't like driving my "big" van, and it would not fit in their garage, so we never pursued modifying it.

If you can operate the chair without being in it, I would bet that it can climb a much steeper angle. Do you know what occupant load it is rated for?

I'm still not sure how you could stow a powered wheel chair without removing at least one of the bench seats.

 

1" sounds about right from what I recall. Good to know my memory isn't completely gone, lol.

As for mobility equipment & related equipment such as lifts & ramps, yes, they cost a crapload. Heck, my chair is about as basic as they come, and it will cost the insurance company over $5,000 for it, plus the annual costs of new batteries, shocks, etc. Lifts and ramps are similarly outrageous, just moderately moreso. As for servicing problems, I'm trying to be careful and keep it simple, since I intend to travel cross-country in the van. Sure, AAA can repair the van itself, but lift systems are custom equipment that has proprietary electronics & other parts. Oftentime, the manufacturer may only have one or two service centers in each state. Sure they'll fix the equipment, after you have it towed, wait a week or two, go pick it up, and finish the aborted trip.

I had a cousin go through this once. She had a reasonably new Caravan with a power lift in the passenger side sliding door. Her chair was stowed in the second row position (Bench removed). When we got to the store (I was driving), she transferred to her chair. I went and opened the door. Grabbed the lift controls. Pressed buttons.

No worky. Hmmm. Must have done it wrong. Pressed the buttons on the control again. Heard the electronics clicking, but no movement.

Called the service # on the decal. After waiting on hold for about 5 minutes, and going through some troubleshooting, still no joy. The tech did tell me how to release the ramp into the open position, so we had that. Unfortunately, while it was open, we couldn't lower it manually. I had to go beg some passers-by for help manhandling her power wheelchair from the van and getting her into it.

Finished shopping, called an accessible taxi, and took her home. I drove the van from Lakeland, where the lift broke, to their service depot in Miami. Was told that it would take about a week to fix, as they had to order parts, but no to worry because it was under warranty.

Unfortunately, that did my cousin no good. By phone, she told me to leave the van there, and called a friend to come get me. For the next 8 days, she was housebound.

The trip to the depot took over 4 hours to make, and I had to pay the gas for it. (I was told that since the van was drivable, it was best to bring it in, as a tow truck would add extra delays.) They did reimburse my cousin for the gas I spent, but the experience left me thinking "THIS is how they warranty a buku-thousands dollar piece of equipment?"

That experience is one that I would prefer to do all I can to avoid.

As far as the winch, I'm thinking along the lines of a ramp about 6 feet long (What's that, about 16-17 degrees?) I'm guessing that is about the steepest I can chance it. I'd have the ramp on the floor in the back, in reaching distance of an open passenger door. I can climb in, turn the power on, and spool out some slack on the cable. Set the ramp up, attach the winch, and using the remote, slowly haul it in while my hand is on the joystick so that the chair just barely comes out of neutral and the brakes unlock. (Alternatively, I can release the motor clutches and put it in freewheel mode, takes a bit longer though.)

Then, when the chair is in, attach securement straps (I'd have 4 eyelets installed in the floor), close door, walk around, get in driver's side. Unhook winch, stow cable, kill winch power. To remove powerchair, repeat steps in reverse.

I confess that I do not remember there even being a transmission hump in the front that extends to the back of the front seats, but then, my van had a center console installed, so I probably wouldn't have been able to see it. In fact, I always visualized the van's floor as completely flat, save for the pattern in the sheet metal under the carpeting, which shouldn't pose a problem. From my (admittedly shoddy) memory, as long as the hump isn't too obscene, the powerchair should have no problem fitting into the space. (I posted its dimensions earlier in the thread.)

As for my chair's occupant load, it is rated at 300 pounds, for a total possible curb weight of 577 pounds. Not exactly lightweight.

The winch I saw said it came with a 24 foot power cable and if I recall, a remote also. In theory, it should be plenty, although I have no idea how to compute what the effective weight of a 277 pound chair being towed up a 17 degree slope is. If it's under 1,000 pounds, good. If it's over, there are larger winches out there.

Will I have problems mounting the winch to one of the mounting points of my driver's seat? Is it even strong enough to hold the load?

Thanks for your help!

 

The transmission hump actually turns into a shallow slope where the front seats are, and blends into the floor at their rear edge, so you should not even encounter it if your wheel chair is never moves up past that point.

I think a winch with 1000 pound capacity should be able to pull the chair AND you up a 17 degree slope with no problem (577 pound load times sine of 17 degrees comes out to about 170 pounds the cable has to pull). My biggest concern was keeping the chair going straight up the ramp, but if you can steer it, that should be no problem.

I don't think I would try to mount the winch to the driver's seat mounts. They are held in with I think 1/4" bolts into nuts pressed into the sheet metal floor. That's why I was looking at using the bench seat anchors.

 

Sounds good so far, except for mounting the winch. Is it possible to have the winch bolted to the floor somehow, without compromising the drivers seat integrity?

Also, would I have problems having 4 mount points installed around the 'parking' space for the powerchair, so that I could attach 4 ratcheting-type hold-down straps to it? (I wouldn't want it sliding around after all!)

If I can get these details figured out, then this sounds like a done deal, and a great way to keep the back of the van clear, so that I can maintain the ability to carry up to 6 passengers, or some combination of passengers and cargo. It also sounds like a MUCH cheaper way to stow a powerchair, without the large expense of a custom system.

Heck, I might even be able to leave the passenger-side seatbelts intact and thus retain the ability to ride a passenger up front.

Thanks again for your help so far!

 

I think I just realized, you want to stow the wheel chair in place of the front passenger seat? I'm not sure if you can open that door wide enough to accommodate a ramp. I've always been working on the assumption that I would be bringing the wheel chair in through the rear, with a ramp deployed there. Then the ramp would be pulled into the van, where there would be 8 feet of depth for stowing an 8 foot ramp, along side the wheel chair. I've never considered going into the front passenger area.

But if you remove the front passenger seat, you can certainly install tie-downs to where the seat was bolted to the floor. It turns out the nuts are welded or swaged onto backing plates that help reinforce the holes that the bolts stick through.

 

Heh. You must have skipped your coffee, maybe? I apologize if I didn't explain it clearly enough. The good thing though is we're now both on the same page.

I found a promotional video that shows my chair, albeit with different options. My chair setup appears at about 1:15 in the video. It's a still shot that only appears for about 1 second, so be ready with your mouse over the pause button. The only thing that will different on my chair than the one shown @ 1:15 is the color. They show a red one, but mine will be green like the first one seen at the start of the video.

YouTube - Invacare TDX Electric Wheelchair ...

Hopefully this video can also give you a sense of the size of the chair. When I demoed it, I was struck by just how compact it was. It's not much bigger than the seat and armrests that are mounted to it, and the front & rear casters only add about 6 inches from the rear of the seat.

If I cannot load the chair due to the passenger door not being wide enough, then I can load it through the sliding door, but park it in place of the passenger seat. Of course, that would only work if the second-row bench was removed.

Although, I seem to recall the Aero's door wasn't that tight. Is there at least 2 feet of width on yours?