The 'square' made where the passenger seat bolted in *might* not be large enough, if memory serves, to encompass the entire powerchair. If you could measure it, I'd appreciate it. I can then compare the figures with the chair when it gets delivered.

If, as I suspect, it turns out to be too small, can I still add the tie down points as needed? (With a machine shop/body shop's help)

Also, given that you have found that the driver's seat mounting points are reinforced (As I would suspect they must be to be safe in a crash), does that mean that I can forego the expense of a separate mounting point for the winch and mount it somewhere 'inside' of the left-most mount or on the outside of the right-most mount, and then feed the cable straight out the passenger door?

Assuming that I'll need a shop to add the tie down points, and possibly a mount for the winch, plus find a suitable ramp (6ft, one piece?), can you ballpark what these modifications are going to cost me?

Thanks again...

 

The front doors only open to about 60 degrees, so you won't be able to use a ramp with it for the wheel chair of your dimensions. The flat area of the front passenger seat is about 22" wide, and about 24" deep before hitting the right side of transmission hump. That's also about where my floor shifter starts on the hump.

So I think the only place to stow the wheel chair is somewhere behind the front seats, and you will have to use either the side or rear doors for the ramp.

 

Ok, so it seems I'll have to load the chair through the side door.

Next.. Floor shifter? Although it's possible that I might buy an '86 to '91 model, my goal is a '94. From my research, that seems to have been the year that they got most of the kinks worked out.

If it turns out that I absolutely cannot load the chair into the passenger seat space for whatever reason, then I'll load it into the space behind the driver's seat in the second row, and take the loss of space. In that case, I still believe that it would be *much* cheaper for me to buy a ramp, winch, and have some tie-down points installed, rather than a pre-made conversion.

My finances are such that if I had to buy a pre-made conversion, I'd have no wheels at all, due to their expense. I'd also never be quite happy with it. For some reason, I prefer another Aerostar. I suppose it's because I'd prefer a van that I know. After all, the Aero's trouble points are well known, and to some extent, avoidable. It's easier to work on than a modern minivan. Also, despite its age, I can make an Aerostar get better gas mileage than many other vans I have owned or driven for a significant length of time. The driving position is great too.

Plus, there's the feel of owning something you know that's based on a truck, which you know that Ford has a lot of experience with, and is designed to survive tougher conditions, vs a car-based minivan. With the exception of a previous Ford Windstar, all the car-based vans I have driven felt somehow.. less capable.

 

I don't know how capable you are, but what about installing a winch, tie downs, and the ramp going up the back? That way you would have all the seating and still room to store stuff in the back around the seat.

It would make the conversion easier, and you could use some ramps like these:

For pickups and vans. - JCWhitney Motorcycle Parts

and here are some more to choose from:

Automobile, Truck & Motorcycle: Parts & Accessories


And here is one specifically for a wheel chair, kinda spendy though, you could probably have something similiar made for you at less of a cost.

Hitchmount Ramps, Wheel Chair hitchmount Ramps, Scooter hitchmount Ramps

I don't know if you have considered this direction?

Also I noticed you were looking for a 5-speed manual, well I hope you can find one, there were not very many made, expecially the later models, but good luck!

 

93nighthawk,

Thanks for the links. The JC Whitney ramps look promising, but I'm hoping for a one piece ramp, as I believe that would be easier for me to maneuver without assistance on a daily basis. If I'm not mistaken, the ramps look like they could bolt to any length of wood, so making it into a one-piece ramp shouldn't be difficult.

As for the ramp in the last link specifically for wheelchairs, I see that it is stored outside of the van. As convenient as that would be, I have heard too many horror stories about people stealing them for scrap metal while the van is unattended. (People can be very callous, and most crack heads just plain don't care.)

Regarding the 5-Spd manual, the thought occurred to me that it might be difficult to activate the clutch by hand (with a pedal extension bar), shift gears, and turn the wheel at the same time, as I only have two hands. Given that, I may have no choice but to go for an automatic transmission version, unless there is a way that the clutch can be mounted to the shifter, so that I can, for example, squeeze a button mounted on the shifter to engage the clutch. Unfortunately, my left foot cannot do as much work as a clutch pedal would demand of it, and I'd hate to have an accident because of it.

 

Sweet bear - Interesting dilemma. A few thoughts:

1. I measured the deck height on the side entrance of my '97 2WD aerostar. It was about 22.5 inches high. In order to achieve a 16 deg angle you're going to need a ramp that's about 6.8 feet long. The force required to drag the chair up the ramp (as xlt noted) is the total weight times 0.276 (the sin of 16 deg). So the 1000 lb winch should be plenty for both you and the chair.

2. But someone is going to have to muscle those ramps out for you and then stow them when you're done. They'll probably at least partially get in the way of the passenger space you wish to preserve inside too. And you mentioned the possibility of them being wood (or bolting to wood?). They'll be pretty darned heavy if they're wood, bulky too (when they're propery reinforced as they will have to be). And if the ramps are two planks of metal or wood and are connected together permanently (to make them stronger and more stable)they'll be even more bulkier than two separate planks. They could be stored on the roof, but again a pretty able bodied person is going to have to put them there and get them back down when needed.

3. Assuming the ramps prove impractical, it might be possible to have a rectangular hollow steel bar (maybe 1.25 in x 2.5 in internally) welded into the roof (with reinforcements) so that it runs side to side and emerges out the top directly over the sliding cargo door. Another bar could be slid inside it. The bar inside could be pulled out about 2.5 feet when needed and locked into place using a removable locking pin. At that point you'd have a strong steel bar emanating out the side of the vehicle, directly over the cargo access door opening. The winch you mentioned earlier could pass a cable on a few pulleys through the hollow bars and through a pulley at the end of the deployed "crane end". The pulley can have a hook on it that's designed to interface with the chair and be used to pick the chair up and bring it above the cargo floor elevation. Then a sliding steel "drawer" could be pulled out from the floor and the chair lowered down on it. The chair is then released from the cable and rolled inside. The pin is pulled on the extensible boom (unlocking it) and it is slid back into its stowed position. All that remains outboard is a small hook or D clip (nothing to steal or salvage). It could fairly easily be made strong enough to pull the chair up, although it'd probably be impractical to design it to accommodate both you and the chair. It's a sorta awkward design but considering you dont wan't a conventional ramp and considering you want a simple non-proprietary design that's reliable and easily repaired, I'd say it would work ok for that. It would take some custom fab and it would cost you for that. If you had it all thought out and spec'ed ahead of time, I'm guessing a fabricator would probably want $1k to $2k to build something like that (maybe a little more).

4. If you are able bodied enough to walk to the driver side and use the existing bucket seat, then I don't see why you can't simply remove the bench seat right behind the driver/passenger, and then in its place reinstall a single bucket seat directly behind the driver seat. That would leave a place for the wheelchair right there where it is loaded into the van directly behind the front passenger seat (and perhaps shifted slightly to the left to make a bit of room for people coming and going in the rear bench seat). And since the chair is simply a chair on wheels, I don't see why someone else couldn't ride in it as a passenger as long as it was properly secured and the old seatbelt system was used (although I doubt it's designed for automotive crashing in mind). It looks like it wouldn't accommodate a fat person, but a normal sized person should be able to sit in it.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Personally I think the commercially available electric ramps they have would probably be best. I'd buy a used one at an auction and have it reworked so it's fresh and new and reliable. I see wheelchair accessible vans all the time selling cheap on ebay and elsewhere. Plus if your disability is progressive you need to think forward to a time when you may not be able to load the chair alone and then walk to the driver side anymore. A conventional powered ramp should take care of all that.

 

Aero-fan,

Quite a thorough post you made there. ;-)

Regarding my disability - I have Cerebral Palsy. I can walk, but with a noticeable limp, and my left ankle can go weak with very little warning. This leads to nasty falls, and is quite uncomfortable, as you might imagine. I also have other partial deformities. For example, I cannot turn my left hand palm side up as a normal person can, and my left foot itself is pointed to the left, instead of straight ahead as a normal person's. I also have reduced flexibility. I cannot assume certain positions that most people would find easy. For example, I cannot sit 'Indian style' or kneel on my knees. Also, putting on my socks & shoes is agonizingly painful, as my body isn't that flexible. Some mornings, I can't do it, so I use a grabber to pull on house slippers instead.

Regarding the ramps - I can lift about 40 pounds, or 50 pounds for a *short* period of time, although my balance is questionable, so getting them from overhead is not as safe as I'd like. I was thinking of stowing the ramp(s) inside of the sliding door area on their sides, secured by hooks or straps as needed.

I admit that I failed advanced math - I can do everything up to advanced fractions. Figuring the sine of something was something I never got to. However, based on the figures posted so far, it appears that an incline actually reduces the weight that any winch would be required to pull, so that's good. I figured it would actually increase the pulling forces required. Given that, is there anything preventing me from using very short ramp lengths, such as 5 to 6 feet, assuming that they have the 'feet' on either end to make smooth transitions?

I never took metal shop in school, so I don't know what weighs less, but for the sake of conversation, let's say aluminum. About how much would a ramp weigh (or each piece, if it's a 2 piece ramp)? As long as it's within my limits of 40-50 pounds, I can maneuver it, though I probably won't be able raise it over my head safely, so the roof rack looks like it's not an option.

The system that you talked about sounds quite interesting, but as long as I can mount the winch so that it is pulling the chair straight up the ramp(s), it wouldn't be needed, correct?

Regarding the last part of your post - My disability is not clinically progressive, like Muscular Dystrophy, but I will get worse with time due to my malformed joints wearing out faster than normal. For example, my 30th birthday is coming up soon. I most likely will have arthritis sometime before I turn 40. Joint replacements are not an option, as they can only be done a few times, and have a limited service life. (In other words, I'm not old enough.)

Those cheap vans you see have no guarantee that the equipment (or the van itself) has no major problems, and they are not under warranty. Out-of-warranty mobility equipment is incredibly expensive to service. It leads some people to junk them when they break down at that point, just like cars.

I can handle repairing & maintaining an older (but still reliable) van, like the Aerostar. Or rather, a shop can. Unfortunately, in addition to my disability, I have very little practical knowledge when it comes to fixing cars, although I have a good head, so I can guess fairly well at what's causing the problem, and thus avoid getting ripped off.

 

I am leaning more toward a two-piece ramp (with removable cross braces for more stability if necessary) so their individual lower weights can be more easily handled. They should also be easier to stow. An aluminum structure will be the lightest. I would also recommend something with sidewalls to help guide the wheels of the chair.

You probably can get away with a shorter, steeper ramp if your winch can pull 1000 pounds. The angle would be limited by how much ground clearance your wheel chair has; it will need to be able to clear the transition between the top of the ramp and the floor of the van. You still need to make sure the winch pulls the chair straight up the van.