This should be interesting.

 

I'll give you a scenario, you see if it might fit: The 6.0 uses the oil temperature sensor to see if the engine is at operating temperature or not. A loose connection, broken wire on the sensor makes the pcm think the engine is cold. The pcm changes the duty cycle of the injectors to provide more fuel to speed warm up. Extra load and speed and overfueling make more exhaust heat, melting the cooler.

 

Vloney - GREAT POST. A lot to absorb here (and it is good to see something that is not the "typical" thread!)

Just like NPCCPARTSMAN, my turbo inlet tube was pretty gummy very quickly. I did the ccv re-route to a frame filter and back to the turbo inlet point. For vapor flow (no liquid traps in the hoses), there should be essentially no pressure drop so the crankcase should be operating at the same slight vacuum as stock.

The interesting thing:
After 1000 miles, I see no oil accumulating in the filter (nothing drains out). It is either being absorbed by the media until it gets saturated OR there just isn't much oil in the vapor. I guess it probably wouldn't take much oil to get things sticky.

I guess if I see a lot of oil in the filter after a bunch more miles, it would be a good indication of a need to go looking for the root cause! So if nothing else, it is a troubleshooting tool.

 

I installed a new Turbo up-pipe with the Sneaky pipe design and the EGR blocker plate. No more exhaust into the EGR cooler. The performance has increased by removing the stock pipe with the up scoop in the exhaust path. Also full 4" Turbo back exhaust, both Mods are the best thing I have done so far. I had to keep the Cat, I get smog checked. Here is something: Before I did this exhaust up grade the emissions were not as good before, as after blocking the EGR off. The EPA is full of crap if the EGR is to reduce emissions, it increases emissions.

 

marc, from the org, told me the exact same thing!

 

Vince - I guess I agree w/ you on the issue of having a hidden problem when the EGR valve plugs up w/ a lot of soot and oily solids. As indicated above, you list some of the problems that may exist - "behind the scenes".

My problem is that I am one of those that had oily solids in the valve and manifold - mainly in the UPPER section of the intake channel. I was not having any performance problems, but I wanted to see how the EGR valve looked. There were quite a bit of oily solids in fact. I was somewhat surprised. Since day 1 (almost) I have run good fuel, used Stanadyne, minimized idling (with the exception of last winter, but it was a Texas winter and not too bad), minimized short trips, occaisionally drove it hard, use synthetic oil, etc. I did just recently get the updated flash AND I routed the ccv vent through an oil collection filter - I am sure that these will help, but still a root cause probably remains. As you stated also - the ccv re-route is another band aid (one that I am very glad I installed).

Now I need to decide how to resolve the root cause since (as I stated), I agree that a normal EGR valve shouldn't accumulate oily solids like this.

How do I go about troubleshooting this? Shouldn't the dealership be responsible for looking into the root cause? I am still under warranty. I have a gut feel that if I take the dirty valve to the dealership (I have two valves and always keep one as a spare), they will not dive into the engine and try to see if I have valve seal problems, or ring problems, or valve cover baffle problems, etc. I would even bet that they would not be happy that I replaced the valve (at my own expense BTW). I realize that I do not know their reaction until I talk to them, but I think I know them well enough to "predict" their reaction.

The worst case scenario is that I pull and clean the EGR valve every 30,000 miles on my own. I have no issue w/ this, but if the dealership would be reluctant to help on this investigative effort, I can see why folks want to delete the EGR completely.

For me, I have no issues w/ the 30,000 mile swap, but it really shouldn't come down to that.

Please let me know what ya think!

Edit - I am not losing enough oil to even notice a level change in 5000 miles, so my root cause problem is clearly not big now. BUT ........... it is apparently enough to show up as a lot of oily solids. Enough solids in fact that I feel sure I would eventually have EGR sticking problems.

Even w/ this dilemma - man I love this truck. It is running great.

 

I know it's not what you intended, but the majority of what doctors do is treat the symptom, not the cause. Got a cluster headache? Take this prescription of Fiorinal. Thats treating the symptom. Not the cause. Mechanics fix causes for the most part. Doctors treat symptoms for the most part. The good ones in each profession identify and correct causes. I'm a doctor.

 

After consulting the 6.0 bible, it appears Dr. MRJC has found 5 sensors and 2 valves and 2 coolers in the air management system. The syptoms would be, i guess, a gummed up egr valve, a clogged egr cooler or a lot oily mist from the CCV system. Hmmmmm. Hot exhaust from the cylinders is picked off and cooled (as much as 700 degree drop in coolent temp here) by the egr system and sent back to CAC if throttle pos is in a steady state (no boosting, egr valve open). Oil it appears is introduced into the cylinder from the crankcase vent system shortly after the filter and burned in the cylinder (a source of sooty). I wonder....if a condition exsisted that blows a lot of oil into the CAC, then into the cylinder (like a non seating valve) then the oily burned mess get into the cooler and EGR and problem? If the EGR valve is closed during high boost conditions, then driving it like you stole it is not going to clean the valve off. Is this true Vince? Given good clean fuel, good additive and no engine malfunctions, it appears the EGR shouldnt get gummy no? i'll say a clogged egr valve woulnt have gotten that way in a functioning stock truck. It indicates a problem with fuel, additive use or a problem with the crankcase vent system. A malfunction sensor in the system does't appear to just effect the EGR. You would think to see the EGR gunk on the turbo exhaust side vanes, but maybe since it is non-cooled hot gas, it doesnt stick on vanes. (remember the egr gas gets cooled before it hits the valve. Now about that co-pay!

 

The exhaust gasses from the EGR valve do not go through the CAC. They go into the intake downstream of the CAC.

Clearly if exhaust gasses are dirty enough to start coating the EGR valve, they will be impacting the turbo vanes and the wheel on the exhaust side. Rust and dirty exhaust gasses are both issues w/ the possibility of having stuck turbo vanes. Keeping the exhaust gasses as clean as possible is obviously a very important task. This is one reason I am skeptical of the "two cycle oil as a fuel additive" concept. This is also why I choose to add a fuel additive that is designed to aid combustion.

I also have chosen to route the ccv vents through a filter (and recommend this) but I am curious about other possible sources of oil leaks into the combustion process. Would a dealership help troubleshoot this solely from the appearance of oily solids in the EGR valve?

 

Yes, the gases post EGR are introduced post CAC, I stand corrected. Vloney didn't say what condition a functioning EGR in a stock truck should look like. My guess, since we are removing them here, is they get gunked up and quit functioning. I guess his statement for the masses to chew on, is removing a function clean system designed for a purpose is just masking another problem. If the designers knew this and the design has not changed at all, then I suppose we are to assume the EGR components in a stock engine work, until something non-EGR friendly is introduced. Too bad they couldn't put a mini regen system on them to burn that stuff off. But the exhaust side of the turbo really should see a bad build up of sticky gunk too, but I bet since it stays hot 700 - 1300 degrees, it just burns/spins off. We'll have to see who wins the prize behind door number one. I would like to know what the techs think of the addition of the coolent filter when they see one? I for one am convinced it should be a stock item. I am one filter number 3 and my Gold coolent is spotless. Saves bearings, EGR coolers and radiators heater cores and $$

 

Personally, I like the coolant filter mod. I preach it constantly (even to my FSE). I believe it is close to being the best thing you can do to your truck, without ruining your warranty. International vt365s have them stock.... they dont have egr cooler issues.

 

And my knowing this from previous discussions was precisely why I installed my filtration system immediately after my EGR and oil coolers were replaced under warranty.

 

This means that oily solids recirculated back through the EGR cooler are probably not causing the EGR cooler failures. As many have said, it is fouling or plugging on the water side that is the issue (plugging may originate in the upstream oil cooler). I love my coolant filter also!

Back to EGR ..........................

Now knowing that the EGR cooler issues are water side issues, a clean exhaust gas to recirculate is important because (in agreement w/ mrjc):
1. Clean exhaust, whether recirculated or not, is better for your turbo.
2. The EGR valve will not stick in the wrong position and cause performance issues.

Still wondering about the best way for a vehicle owner to troubleshoot the root cause (not symptom) of an oily EGR system.

 

I can't believe how much I learned just reading 3 pages!This is a GREAT thread!

 

egr delete is the first thing every 6.0 should do to their truck! i cant believe how much cleaner mine runs, i have a white truck with a 5" pipe exiting right behind the rear wheel and my lower bedside and rear bumper used to always get a coating of soot even with stock programming, now with the delete my rolled tip doesnt even get sooty!