93 E150 just dies @ idle
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93 E150 just dies @ idle
I've got a 1993 E150 5.0L that has decided to just die out on me at idle. This has happened to me 3X...
2X I was at a light, and it restarted with maybe rekeying and cranking a bit- not fun....but then last night it died and then wouldn't restart at all, no loping or hint of starting...10 minutes later after I'd called the tow truck it decided to start and run and drive me all the way back home...
There were about 500 miles in between these episodes...
Both times, the engine was @ operating temp and last night I had just turned the AC on about 30 seconds before it decided to act like someone just literally pulled the plug on it...
No CEL, but I tried pulling codes and initially it looks like a 121- related to TPS...would this cause an outright no-start?
I had also tried cycling the fuel pump a few times to get it to come up to pressure to no avail- no change at all...it was only when it sat without me cranking it that it decided to come to life after about 10 mins...
Any clues where I should start?
Thanks in advance!!!
Dave
2X I was at a light, and it restarted with maybe rekeying and cranking a bit- not fun....but then last night it died and then wouldn't restart at all, no loping or hint of starting...10 minutes later after I'd called the tow truck it decided to start and run and drive me all the way back home...
There were about 500 miles in between these episodes...
Both times, the engine was @ operating temp and last night I had just turned the AC on about 30 seconds before it decided to act like someone just literally pulled the plug on it...
No CEL, but I tried pulling codes and initially it looks like a 121- related to TPS...would this cause an outright no-start?
I had also tried cycling the fuel pump a few times to get it to come up to pressure to no avail- no change at all...it was only when it sat without me cranking it that it decided to come to life after about 10 mins...
Any clues where I should start?
Thanks in advance!!!
Dave
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The 1st thing that came to mind upon just reading your title was a bad TPS. This is especially likely w/aftermarket TPS replacements.
I've had 3 TPS changes, the last being an extremely frustrating intermittent that stumped several pros, although part of this mystery included readily restarting.
The intermittent failure didn't lite the CEL or throw a code at the shop. Ultimately I got my own fault code reader & jumped out when the symptom appeared in order to catch codes. I had not suspected the recently replaced TPS, partially b/c of the different symptoms, but it was the source of the problem. I destroyed the bad TPS looking for the fault & found arcing where the connector at the end of a wire contacted the carbon rheostat. Apparently this fritzed contact varied between arcing, making solid contact & breaking contact. The TPS is merely a small 'volume' control & the bottom end, where it spends most of it's time at idle, is subject to the most wear.
Onboard diagnostics might not always indicate the fault, but if you pull a code it would be foolish to ignore it. My 1st TPS change was straight forward, although it did not lite the CEL the codes were there for a parts store to read.
Originally Posted by fjazzbass
I tried pulling codes and initially it looks like a 121- related to TPS...would this cause an outright no-start?
The intermittent failure didn't lite the CEL or throw a code at the shop. Ultimately I got my own fault code reader & jumped out when the symptom appeared in order to catch codes. I had not suspected the recently replaced TPS, partially b/c of the different symptoms, but it was the source of the problem. I destroyed the bad TPS looking for the fault & found arcing where the connector at the end of a wire contacted the carbon rheostat. Apparently this fritzed contact varied between arcing, making solid contact & breaking contact. The TPS is merely a small 'volume' control & the bottom end, where it spends most of it's time at idle, is subject to the most wear.
Onboard diagnostics might not always indicate the fault, but if you pull a code it would be foolish to ignore it. My 1st TPS change was straight forward, although it did not lite the CEL the codes were there for a parts store to read.
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Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Toledo, Ohio
Dave,
Is the fuel pump working? Do you hear it when you first turn on key? What pressure did you get? I'm not saying your TPS isn't bad but you indicated some info on the fuel pump and it wasn't clear on the indications of pressure/pump running. ( I just recently replaced my TPS as it would jerk and hesitate from a stoplight) ( it also started to die once while driving, went from 45 mph to 15 mph tops , tried to adjust accelerator pedal.....then I drove across a set of RR tracks and it took off!)
Another thing you might want to check is the coil wire to distributor cap. If it has been a while since a tune-up it may be shorting out....
John
Is the fuel pump working? Do you hear it when you first turn on key? What pressure did you get? I'm not saying your TPS isn't bad but you indicated some info on the fuel pump and it wasn't clear on the indications of pressure/pump running. ( I just recently replaced my TPS as it would jerk and hesitate from a stoplight) ( it also started to die once while driving, went from 45 mph to 15 mph tops , tried to adjust accelerator pedal.....then I drove across a set of RR tracks and it took off!)
Another thing you might want to check is the coil wire to distributor cap. If it has been a while since a tune-up it may be shorting out....
John
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couple things I tried
Well, I bought a new EECIV relay based on a gut reaction from my brother who runs a shop...
I also bought a new TPS and when installing I busted the LH bottom bolt on the throttle body as I was removing it...argh!
I saw no other way to get that TPS out...in any case I have to get that old bolt out now- fun fun..
I'll post my results after I get it pieced back together.
fyi, I tested the TPS with my Actron "sensor tester"- according to it, the sensor was dead...
Dave
I also bought a new TPS and when installing I busted the LH bottom bolt on the throttle body as I was removing it...argh!
I saw no other way to get that TPS out...in any case I have to get that old bolt out now- fun fun..
I'll post my results after I get it pieced back together.
fyi, I tested the TPS with my Actron "sensor tester"- according to it, the sensor was dead...
Dave
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fuel pump
Originally Posted by kynnhoj
Dave,
Is the fuel pump working? Do you hear it when you first turn on key? What pressure did you get? I'm not saying your TPS isn't bad but you indicated some info on the fuel pump and it wasn't clear on the indications of pressure/pump running. ( I just recently replaced my TPS as it would jerk and hesitate from a stoplight) ( it also started to die once while driving, went from 45 mph to 15 mph tops , tried to adjust accelerator pedal.....then I drove across a set of RR tracks and it took off!)
Another thing you might want to check is the coil wire to distributor cap. If it has been a while since a tune-up it may be shorting out....
John
Is the fuel pump working? Do you hear it when you first turn on key? What pressure did you get? I'm not saying your TPS isn't bad but you indicated some info on the fuel pump and it wasn't clear on the indications of pressure/pump running. ( I just recently replaced my TPS as it would jerk and hesitate from a stoplight) ( it also started to die once while driving, went from 45 mph to 15 mph tops , tried to adjust accelerator pedal.....then I drove across a set of RR tracks and it took off!)
Another thing you might want to check is the coil wire to distributor cap. If it has been a while since a tune-up it may be shorting out....
John
Dave
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Posts: 333
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From: Toledo, Ohio
Sorry about the busted bolt. I can't remember if there is a flange or not, a small c clamp might work if you can get on the back side of the intake manifold. ( instead of drilling out bolt)
John
John
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I feel your pain. Apparently many others did too. IMO Ford's design, hiding the TPS underneath, also contributes to failures.
I narrowly averted disaster struggling to remove 1 of the little Philips screws that hold the TPS on! At some point FORD redesigned things placing the TPS on top, where its easily accessed.
Originally Posted by fjazzbass
I busted the LH bottom bolt on the throttle body as I was removing it...argh!
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overnight wait...question about rebolting in throttle body
Originally Posted by Club Wagon
I feel your pain. Apparently many others did too. IMO Ford's design, hiding the TPS underneath, also contributes to failures.
I narrowly averted disaster struggling to remove 1 of the little Philips screws that hold the TPS on! At some point FORD redesigned things placing the TPS on top, where its easily accessed.
I narrowly averted disaster struggling to remove 1 of the little Philips screws that hold the TPS on! At some point FORD redesigned things placing the TPS on top, where its easily accessed.
Would be nice if a newer tb would fit the old manifold and then not have to worry about it being underneath...
My question now is, should I use anti seize on the TB to manifold bolts this time around???
Dave
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From: Toledo, Ohio
Don't know how far you progressed today. There is such a thing as a left-hand drill bit that will work for bolt extraction. I've never used one but I have drilled out other bolts with a right hand bit and just as you get to the threads the broken bolt starts to turn, unfortunately in the wrong direction.....
( use anti-seize, of course! )
John
( use anti-seize, of course! )
John
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TB back in- got that bolt out...
I got that stubborn bolt out with Seafoam DeepCreep and PB'laster- with a set of Vice Grip (brand) pliers- they had a unique feature I had not seen before...you could tighten the plier with a 4mm hex key- I used a socket since I have them for my VW...
Put everything back together- it runs, but smoked like crazy at first- I think from all the gunk I sprayed down the intake to get the bolt free- and to clean out the gunk off the inside of the intake...
I haven't checked codes yet, but will report back to say what happens...it did start right up and ran pretty smooth...
Dave
Put everything back together- it runs, but smoked like crazy at first- I think from all the gunk I sprayed down the intake to get the bolt free- and to clean out the gunk off the inside of the intake...
I haven't checked codes yet, but will report back to say what happens...it did start right up and ran pretty smooth...
Dave
