Global Warming?
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 16
From: AZ
Amen!!!!!!
Originally Posted by monsterbaby
Yes it is a "fact" that CO2 is rising, it is also a FACT that it has risen multiple times in history and if you watch the part about how they have done ice cores and show how it's higher now in history you, IF you are any sort of critical thinking person instead of a robot will realize the falacy of that particular argument. Not sure if I can articulate it in type but let me try, they argue that CO2 is rising and melting the ice packs right? Then they say it's higher then has been in history by core samples from those same ice packs, follow me so far? Ok rising CO2 will ALWAYS cause the top layers of those ice packs to melt and not add to them when the CO2 levels are high.. so are you starting to see yet? thats right every time the CO2 Levels reach a particular level the ice melts away, then doesn't start to rebuild until through natural design not anything man does the CO2 levels drop again then the ice starts to reform so there is no ice built when high CO2 so no ice will show elevated CO2 levels in history and even my 10 yr old grand daughter caught onto that when the teacher tried to shove Al Gore down there throats and left the teacher stumped, now if a 10 yr old without my prompting or even discussing this with her can see it, some please tell me WHY is this even still being discussed, it's so blatenly obvious even a child can see the fallacy.
Next the solar scientist know exactly what is causing global warming and have been trying to tell everyone for years but that isn't good for the political redistribution of wealth folks nor the global government agenda folks, or the people that are just trying to run a con job on people and make a fortune from it. It's the same thing that is causing global warming on mars (as measured by our own instruments in orbit around and on the surface) and as noticed by infra red pics of every planet in the solar system and that is the SUN, and last time I checked man couldn't control nor did he have any affect on the sun whatsoever. Do a little bit of research but the sun has been in a period of increased solar activity and flares for over 25yrs and is still in it to this day and is expected to be in it until around 2025 as I recall from memory, so whats going to happen when the "experts" get us to reduce CO2 around the planet then the sun cools down and we don't have that cushion to protect us and into another ice age we are plunged? Doesn't anyone think it's rather coincedental that the CO2 levels increase during a high solar activity time and are a global warming gas that would help keep the planet warm enough to support life when the sun goes into a cool period following that? Gee maybe nature knows something Al Gore doesn't.... Naw he is the smartest man on the planet.
Lastly in case no has bothered to look it up, the earth is still emerging from the last ice age, we still haven't reached what history as taken from core samples etc show to be the mean average temp, yes thats right we need to increase the global temp by over double what has increased so far in recorded history and the earth will still be less then the average temp in history.
Doesn't anyone think it's odd that according to archaeological digs, the climate in England during the days of Christ was equivalent to So Cal now? so IF man is causing global warming why is london colder then LA? maybe because around 1200ad there was a volcanic eruption of the Baitoushan volcano in China that is said to have caused a lot of "cooling" due to the ash in the atmosphere and that we are still coming out of even that to this day.
Is the globe warming? Yes. Is man have anything to do with it, or can man affect it? Not even a little bit. the only thing that this global warming will do is lighten your wallet and fatten the wallets of guys like Al Gore, it's all about power and money and nothing more.
Next the solar scientist know exactly what is causing global warming and have been trying to tell everyone for years but that isn't good for the political redistribution of wealth folks nor the global government agenda folks, or the people that are just trying to run a con job on people and make a fortune from it. It's the same thing that is causing global warming on mars (as measured by our own instruments in orbit around and on the surface) and as noticed by infra red pics of every planet in the solar system and that is the SUN, and last time I checked man couldn't control nor did he have any affect on the sun whatsoever. Do a little bit of research but the sun has been in a period of increased solar activity and flares for over 25yrs and is still in it to this day and is expected to be in it until around 2025 as I recall from memory, so whats going to happen when the "experts" get us to reduce CO2 around the planet then the sun cools down and we don't have that cushion to protect us and into another ice age we are plunged? Doesn't anyone think it's rather coincedental that the CO2 levels increase during a high solar activity time and are a global warming gas that would help keep the planet warm enough to support life when the sun goes into a cool period following that? Gee maybe nature knows something Al Gore doesn't.... Naw he is the smartest man on the planet.
Lastly in case no has bothered to look it up, the earth is still emerging from the last ice age, we still haven't reached what history as taken from core samples etc show to be the mean average temp, yes thats right we need to increase the global temp by over double what has increased so far in recorded history and the earth will still be less then the average temp in history.
Doesn't anyone think it's odd that according to archaeological digs, the climate in England during the days of Christ was equivalent to So Cal now? so IF man is causing global warming why is london colder then LA? maybe because around 1200ad there was a volcanic eruption of the Baitoushan volcano in China that is said to have caused a lot of "cooling" due to the ash in the atmosphere and that we are still coming out of even that to this day.
Is the globe warming? Yes. Is man have anything to do with it, or can man affect it? Not even a little bit. the only thing that this global warming will do is lighten your wallet and fatten the wallets of guys like Al Gore, it's all about power and money and nothing more.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,600
Likes: 3
From: Carhenge
Originally Posted by mudmaker
How much did St Helens produce when it erupted. Prior to all this global warming scare I remember being told by a science prof in school about all the pollutants a volcano produces when it erupts. I dont remember the specifics, but if was something to the effect of the equiv of 100 years of the US industies.
Emissions from human activity of burning fossil fuels and concrete production is around 27 billion tons annually. So every year we emit as much CO2 as all volcanoes on earth do in 54 years.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 16
From: AZ
If you want to read an excellent review (peer reviewed) paper on global warming, read this and for the economics and politics of global warming, read this.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,541
Likes: 2
From: Dallas-Ft. Worth
Interesting read on volcanoes and their emissions. Here's a key quote: "Water vapor is typically the most abundant volcanic gas, followed by carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide."
Here's the article:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1997/of97-262/of97-262.html
Unfortunately, there's so much stuff out there with an obvious pro-Goreish slant, it's hard to find scientifically neutral information. You all do know that Al Gore & Google have been joined at the hip for some time right?
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...1/110911.shtml
He also was (or still is, I don't follow Apple too much) on the Apple BoD...
Here's the article:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1997/of97-262/of97-262.html
Unfortunately, there's so much stuff out there with an obvious pro-Goreish slant, it's hard to find scientifically neutral information. You all do know that Al Gore & Google have been joined at the hip for some time right?
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...1/110911.shtml
He also was (or still is, I don't follow Apple too much) on the Apple BoD...
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 16
From: AZ
And water vapor is the most potent of the greenhouse gases...here is a picture of algore borrowed:
Originally Posted by Izzy351
Interesting read on volcanoes and their emissions. Here's a key quote: "Water vapor is typically the most abundant volcanic gas, followed by carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide."
Here's the article:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1997/of97-262/of97-262.html
Unfortunately, there's so much stuff out there with an obvious pro-Goreish slant, it's hard to find scientifically neutral information. You all do know that Al Gore & Google have been joined at the hip for some time right?
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/5/11/110911.shtml
He also was (or still is, I don't follow Apple too much) on the Apple BoD...
Here's the article:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1997/of97-262/of97-262.html
Unfortunately, there's so much stuff out there with an obvious pro-Goreish slant, it's hard to find scientifically neutral information. You all do know that Al Gore & Google have been joined at the hip for some time right?
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/5/11/110911.shtml
He also was (or still is, I don't follow Apple too much) on the Apple BoD...
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 3
From: Windsor, Colorado
Originally Posted by nlemerise
If you want to read an excellent review (peer reviewed) paper on global warming, read this and for the economics and politics of global warming, read this.
Thanks for sharing it. Hard to get an honest point of view on global warming.
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Neal I have a theory about water vapor, temperature thresh hold for water to jump from a liquid to a gas state, then condense as clouds and cool the earth.
If it's cold enough, less clouds form and the earth warms.
If it's too hot, more clouds form and shield the earth from excess rays and then it cools back down again.
The planet's temperature is self regulating due to the vapor point of H2O and because of that it's virtually impossible to influence the climate of the earth through artificial means. It's all tied into the laws of nature and we cannot change that on bit.
.
I printed out your .pdf files for reading later. I'm not much of an egghead so it will be a plow for me to read them, but I want to know what they say.
I'll let you know.
Izzy, I'm going to follow your links too.
If it's cold enough, less clouds form and the earth warms.
If it's too hot, more clouds form and shield the earth from excess rays and then it cools back down again.
The planet's temperature is self regulating due to the vapor point of H2O and because of that it's virtually impossible to influence the climate of the earth through artificial means. It's all tied into the laws of nature and we cannot change that on bit.
.
I printed out your .pdf files for reading later. I'm not much of an egghead so it will be a plow for me to read them, but I want to know what they say.
I'll let you know.
Izzy, I'm going to follow your links too.
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
From: northern Michigan
this is all a computer modeling theory, and as such is subject to the theorum of garbage in garbage out. The Al gore and UN idiots where not the scientist, but the politicians that lobby for research funds and wanted a project. The Nasa people got punished last year for releasing a report that over the last twenty years all of the planets have risen the same amount over the same time frame. Also jsut released this year is a study that says sun spot activity has declined considerably and in the past this has corelated to a cooling period or a mini ice age. They are predicting that this cooling period will last at least 40 years. Expect higher heating bills. Sun spot activity and our climate have a long history of study so my money is on a cooling periiod, not a hot house like Gore and company are pushing.
Thread Starter
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Gone, but not forgotten
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,026
Likes: 2
From: Charlotte-Fairbanks-Bflo
Originally Posted by stormyrider
this is all a computer modeling theory, and as such is subject to the theorum of garbage in garbage out. The Al gore and UN idiots where not the scientist, but the politicians that lobby for research funds and wanted a project. The Nasa people got punished last year for releasing a report that over the last twenty years all of the planets have risen the same amount over the same time frame. Also jsut released this year is a study that says sun spot activity has declined considerably and in the past this has corelated to a cooling period or a mini ice age. They are predicting that this cooling period will last at least 40 years. Expect higher heating bills. Sun spot activity and our climate have a long history of study so my money is on a cooling periiod, not a hot house like Gore and company are pushing.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 16
From: AZ
Originally Posted by Kwikkordead
Neal I have a theory about water vapor, temperature thresh hold for water to jump from a liquid to a gas state, then condense as clouds and cool the earth.
If it's cold enough, less clouds form and the earth warms.
If it's too hot, more clouds form and shield the earth from excess rays and then it cools back down again.
The planet's temperature is self regulating due to the vapor point of H2O and because of that it's virtually impossible to influence the climate of the earth through artificial means. It's all tied into the laws of nature and we cannot change that on bit.
.
I printed out your .pdf files for reading later. I'm not much of an egghead so it will be a plow for me to read them, but I want to know what they say.
I'll let you know.
Izzy, I'm going to follow your links too.
If it's cold enough, less clouds form and the earth warms.
If it's too hot, more clouds form and shield the earth from excess rays and then it cools back down again.
The planet's temperature is self regulating due to the vapor point of H2O and because of that it's virtually impossible to influence the climate of the earth through artificial means. It's all tied into the laws of nature and we cannot change that on bit.
.
I printed out your .pdf files for reading later. I'm not much of an egghead so it will be a plow for me to read them, but I want to know what they say.
I'll let you know.
Izzy, I'm going to follow your links too.
OK, here goes my lecture on water vapor and global warming (assume the student position - eyes open, mind closed
) much condensed (so feel free to shoot questions). The biosphere (that section of the earth which supports life - a thin layer of gases, water, and rock) is a dynamic system, not a static system. That is, the biosphere tries to maintain homeostasis (a steady state - call it an average state). But none of the regulating systems to maintain homeostasis act individually. Any one that turns up or turns down, has other effects (and many that we don't even know of). So let us say that global warming is occurring and that it is above the homeostatic plateau (the steady average temperature the biosphere "wants" to maintain). Something must occur which would cause the biospheres temperature to decrease...Well we know what happens when you heat a body of water (the earth is 7/10'ths water) - evaporation accelerates. The water vapor is a very potent greenhouse gas (meaning it will trap a lot of energy in the atmosphere) while the water is in vapor form. But that only lasts a short time...look out the window at Mt. Rainier. The clouds that form around it are formed from the water vapor being lifted due to orographic lifting (the air being forced over higher elevations)...this causes the water vapor to coalesce as water molecules and forms clouds. Now remember the last time you flew in an airplane above the clouds? Remember how bright the clouds were from above (a lot brighter than from below)? Clouds have a very high albedo (reflectivity of light). Thus as global warming occurs it will cause more evaporation, more clouds, and hence more sunlight will be reflected into space - causing the biosphere temperature to decrease (which will in turn will start to lower the evaporation rate, which will lead to fewer clouds, which will lead to more warming). So the biosphere works like the thermostat in your home...you set the temperature on the thermostat, but the temperature of your house actually fluctuates slightly above the target temperature (the homeostatic plateau) which shuts the furnace and then it fluctuates below the target temperature causing the furnace to fire up.
So what is responsible for all the evaporation...the sun. And the sun is a reactor that is not steady state. It has periods of higher solar output and periods of lower solar output. Periods of high solar output coincide with sunspots and is on an 11-year cycle from high to low. The output during the peak of sunspot activity is about 1367 watts/sq meter and about 1365 watts/sq meter during the lowest sunspot activity. This doesn't seem like much, but listen to this. Between 1645 and 1715 the sunspot cycle stopped; the face of the Sun was nearly blank for 70 years. At the same time Europe was hit by a cold spell: the Thames River in London froze, glaciers advanced in the Alps, and northern sea ice increased. An earlier centuries-long surge in solar activity (inferred from studies of tree rings) had the opposite effect: Vikings were able to settle the thawed-out coast of Greenland in the 980s, and even grow enough wheat there to export the surplus to Scandinavia. Then sunspot activity diminsihed again and the Vikings were driven out of Greenland by the cold and their inability to grow crops.
Class dismissed....
!
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 16
From: AZ
Originally Posted by Markadeck
That idiot gore just wanted his name in the headlines somehow, someway, and did not care how he did it. I had a very liberal friend ask me today if they had gotten around to yanking his Nobel prize yet. Even she could not accept the fact that he had gotten one. Between gore and carter the prize now means zero.........Caps of the names are left out intentionally!
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 16
From: AZ
Originally Posted by stormyrider
this is all a computer modeling theory, and as such is subject to the theorum of garbage in garbage out. The Al gore and UN idiots where not the scientist, but the politicians that lobby for research funds and wanted a project. The Nasa people got punished last year for releasing a report that over the last twenty years all of the planets have risen the same amount over the same time frame. Also jsut released this year is a study that says sun spot activity has declined considerably and in the past this has corelated to a cooling period or a mini ice age. They are predicting that this cooling period will last at least 40 years. Expect higher heating bills. Sun spot activity and our climate have a long history of study so my money is on a cooling periiod, not a hot house like Gore and company are pushing.
