I would like to know what the M stands for on the end of 351 & what makes it different from the 351w & 351c.
Boss

 

Modified, Michigan, Midland, nothing at all...take your pick. Nobody really knows what it stands for. The M and the C are very similar, in fact they even share the same heads...a 2V C head and an M head are identical. The M has a much taller deck than the C and bigger mains but other than that it's very similar and can take many Cleveland parts. The W is a different animal, it's not the same engine family and has different style heads. Not many parts will interchange between the Clevlands and the Windsors without modifications.

 

M- STANDS FOR MODIFIED CLEVELAND.WIDER AT THE INTAKE,LARGER CRANK JOURNALS,RODS AND PISTONS WON'T INTERCHANGE WITH ANYTHING ELSE FOMOCO MADE. ALSO KNOWN AS FORD'S COMATOSE ENGINE,"YOU CAN'T KILL IT,AND YOU CAN'T WAKE IT UP!"

 

A. Stop shouting!

B. Show me 1, just 1, piece of Ford literature (besides an SVO or Motorsports catalog) that says that M stands for Modified.

 

He is right bill. I'm sorry. M most certainly does stand for modified. Not going to go to ford and ask to look through all their old books but most everyone knows that it does. And if Ford motorsport says it stands for modified that should be enough. Now whether it is a big or small block is up to you.

 

modified- stands for modified cleveland

midland- bigger than a 302 or windsor, yet smaller that a big block.

 

>B. Show me 1, just 1,
>piece of Ford literature (besides
>an SVO or Motorsports catalog)
>that says that M stands
>for Modified.

bill, instead of writing all this, why can,t you just post, in your opinion, what the m stands for? why must you attack anyone who doesn't agree with you?? and by the way, i'm going to call the editors of svo and motorsports catalogs, and tell them this guy that hangs out in fte's message boards says your catalogs are all wrong. and that they should consult with him before printing any more material.

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 17-Apr-01 AT 02:01 PM (EST)[/font][p]He already did state what his opinion was. He said that no one really knows/stands for nothing.

I believe from what I have seen that they simply used M because it was the opposite of W, for which the Windsor was already known.

And I also believe that it IS NOT a big block, but simply has a big block (385 series) bolt pattern. Bore spacing is that of a small block I have heard.

1978 F250 4x4 - 351M
Don't crush them, restore them!

 

>and by the way, i'm
>going to call the editors
>of svo and motorsports catalogs,
>and tell them this guy
>that hangs out in fte's
>message boards says your catalogs
>are all wrong. and
>that they should consult with
>him before printing any more
>material.

Knock yourself out.

 

>He is right bill. I'm sorry.
> M most certainly does
>stand for modified. Not going
>to go to ford and
>ask to look through all
>their old books but most
>everyone knows that it does.


So smoker, you're evidently a former Ford engineer who worked on the M series? Perhaps you're a Ford historian who can provide some evidence a little more concrete than "most everyone knows" maybe? Most everyone knew the earth was flat a few hundred years ago too...

For that matter most everyone knows that the majority of M series engine blocks were cast at the Michigan Casting Center. Since W stands for Windsor Engine Plant and C stands for Cleveland Foundry wouldn't it make sense that the M might stand for Michigan? I'm not saying it does but it's a helluva lot more logical than Modified.

 

>So smoker, you're evidently a former
>Ford engineer who worked on
>the M series?


smoker may not be, but i have a cousin who married an engineer for GM. this is what he sent me from their files.

"the 400m was born of the need for lightweight, big-block style power. designed to compete directly with chevys 400 small-block of the era, the 400m is a 400cu MODIFIED cleveland block with a .500-inch taller deck". "the 351m, first introduced for 1975, was nothing more than a destroked 400m. this enabled ford to cut costs by inventorying one block that would be produced in two displacements. chevy had done this successfully with its small and big blocks for years. why couldn't ford with its m-series modified clevelands".


>For that matter most everyone knows
>that the majority of M
>series engine blocks were cast
>at the Michigan Casting Center.
>Since W stands for Windsor
>Engine Plant and C stands
>for Cleveland Foundry wouldn't it
>make sense that the M
>might stand for Michigan? I'm
>not saying it does but
>it's a helluva lot more
>logical than Modified.


bill, did you watch another special on fox? did they finally do a show on the mysteries of ford mo co?

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 18-Apr-01 AT 01:20 PM (EST)[/font][p]Jeezus, like I'm really concerned about what a GM engineer has to say about a Ford motor. That whole statement was a pile of horse manure. The first clue is that Ford doesn't call it a 400m, they never have, they call it a 400. Period. No W, no C and no M. The Ford shop manual doesn't put a letter on the end of the 400 but they do differentiate the 351s with M and W.

There's no question the block is related to the Cleveland, hell they're the same engine series. M could very well stand for Modified but I think a case could be made for it meaning Michigan also. It's my opinion and that's all I have to say on the subject. Now why don't you take your rather large nose back over to the big block forum where they actually believe some of the crap you post.

 

>i have a cousin who married
>an engineer for GM.

Seesh, now we have someone who knows something! LOL

>"the 400m was born of the

There is no 400M. I have never seen a Ford publication, either technical or marketing, where they used the "M" tag on the 400 engine name. In fact, the "M" was never used until the 351M was introduced in MY1975 (four years after the 400 was introduced).

>the 400m
>is a 400cu MODIFIED cleveland
>block with a .500-inch taller
>deck".

Boy, those GM guys really know their stuff, eh? The 351C deck height is 9.206" and the 400 deck height is 10.297".

>bill, did you watch another special
>on fox? did they
>finally do a show on
>the mysteries of ford mo
>co?

Now that would be interesting.

As for what the "M" means, I have never found any further explanation in any Ford technical literature; the engine is simply referred to as the 351M.

If you want to use Ford's marketing literature (such as the Ford Motorsports/FRP catalog) for authoritative reference purposes, I have seen 1975 and 1976 Torino brochures that called the 351M a "351 Cleveland." So maybe the "M" stands for Cleveland!

BubbaF250

1980 F250 4x4 Custom, 351M/NP435/NP208/D44HD-TTB/D60-FF/3.55s 6750 GVW, Rust & White.

 

That post referred to the 351 as a 'modified cleveland'.

No one would say yeah, I have a 351MODIFIED CLEVELAND.

I'm no english major, but they are referring to it as a modified cleveland to refer to its origin and not referring to it as designated a 351MODIFIED CLEVELAND.

1978 F250 4x4 - 351M
Don't crush them, restore them!

 

yea, lets see, i'm gonna believe either an engineer, wheather it be ford, gm, or yugo, or someone who believes the m-series motors are good motors and that like the new quarters, name them after a state. a 351 michigan 400!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i think your on to something here!!