New Excursion Driving Impressions
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,955
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From: Ohio
Originally Posted by X_Hemi_Guy
Read Stewarts instructions! LOL
You MARK the allen bolt FIRST before doing ANYTHING...you have to loosen the jam nut before you can move the allen bolt...then when you get the allen bolt where you want it you tighten the jam nut (the nut on the bolt you circled)...remember when you tighten that jam nut...the allen bolt will move...it is HARD to keep your allen wrench down there AND tighten the nut...VERY TIGHT AREA!!!
joe.
You MARK the allen bolt FIRST before doing ANYTHING...you have to loosen the jam nut before you can move the allen bolt...then when you get the allen bolt where you want it you tighten the jam nut (the nut on the bolt you circled)...remember when you tighten that jam nut...the allen bolt will move...it is HARD to keep your allen wrench down there AND tighten the nut...VERY TIGHT AREA!!!
joe.
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Originally Posted by X_Hemi_Guy
Stewart as always has excellent advice and directions!
I'd suggest a couple of checks though before jumping to the steering box...because as he points out if you OVER tighten it...you could DAMAGE it...
Tires are a good place to start your search. What tire pressures are you running? I've found that tire pressure is a very large contributor to the handling characteristics of our beasts...and also one of the easiest to vary...but also one of the easiest to OVERLOOK!!!
Many like to run high pressures which I found to contribute to HORRIBLE handling characteristics with the OEM BFG Radial Trail T/A 265/75R 16E. Do you know if yours has D or E range tires?...that makes a difference too in side wall flex and thus steerability (word?...LOL)
Next I would see if you have a REAR sway bar...many Ex's do NOT come with that IMO NEEDED piece of hardware...body roll can induce over correction...these vehicles are much less 'refined' than your old Burb...it is a fact...sorry guys...we have TRUCKS...so the center of gravity is very high and the rear springs are softer and there is a large spacer block...those small corrections in steering combined with that rear end could be causing ROLL and you have to then re-correct your input...
Poke your head under your Ex and if no rear sway bar...get a Hellwig from JCWhitney for under $200 delivered to your door...less than 1 hr install time and you'll have a much better behaved Ex...
Shocks...well shocks are a key contributor to handling...if yours are OEM's with 49K on them...they are SHOT...you could be fighting a wander issue due to the front wheels hopping due to worn shocks...if those are OEM's...I'd suggest getting a set of Bilsteins from http://www.shockwarehouse.com/ and upon checkout enter 'fordtrucks' for a 5% discount...4 shocks delivered to your door will cost you ~$250.
Notice I am steering (no pun sorry) you AWAY from doing the steering box adjustment right away...while I know the steering box is a culprit...I think it gets tagged too quickly because it IS an EASY target...there are unfortunately other targets that should be at least evaluated first...and tire AIR pressure is a VERY easy one!
Finally Stewart pointed out the RAS and V/B code springs...our Ex's 'suffer' from having soft springs with a LARGE spacer block...all that weight of the Ex expecially under braking can warp those soft springs on one side...causing a rear axle mis-alignment...stiffer springs thru the V/B code (like Stewart did) or the RAS (like I did) reduces or eliminates that phenom. There is another option that many have good success with on here and that is called Landyot Radius Rods. I believe those do as they are designed to do. My only caution with those is that if you tow HEAVY with your truck...you will need to supplement your rear springs some how.
My option involves TWO items either the RAS and Hellwig OR the V/B and Hellwig. Both of these TWO options SOLVE the issue...I know IT SOLVED MINE.
Going the radius rod route...you would need THREE items. Radius rods, Hellwig AND Air Bags (Or RAS OR V/B)...but you get the point...the radius rods address ONE aspect of the rear axle short coming and that is axle wrapping...they do NOTHING for rear spring capacity.
It is my opinion that the V/B code springs or RAS address TWO aspects (spring capacity AND axle wrapping).
If you NEVER plan to tow with your Ex...you may want to look at the radius rods...but for less $$$ you could add a RAS and accomplish a few things.
Sorry to type so much...my fingers just keep going some times...
Hope my info helps...if after you evaluate all the other areas I suggested...if THEN you still have this steering phenom...well....then the steering box should be looked into. I didn't mention tie rods because you said there wasn't a bunch of play...but the ONLY grease fittings you will find are on the tie rod ends...you may want to look at them too and hit them with some grease...
Good luck,
joe.
I'd suggest a couple of checks though before jumping to the steering box...because as he points out if you OVER tighten it...you could DAMAGE it...
Tires are a good place to start your search. What tire pressures are you running? I've found that tire pressure is a very large contributor to the handling characteristics of our beasts...and also one of the easiest to vary...but also one of the easiest to OVERLOOK!!!
Many like to run high pressures which I found to contribute to HORRIBLE handling characteristics with the OEM BFG Radial Trail T/A 265/75R 16E. Do you know if yours has D or E range tires?...that makes a difference too in side wall flex and thus steerability (word?...LOL)
Next I would see if you have a REAR sway bar...many Ex's do NOT come with that IMO NEEDED piece of hardware...body roll can induce over correction...these vehicles are much less 'refined' than your old Burb...it is a fact...sorry guys...we have TRUCKS...so the center of gravity is very high and the rear springs are softer and there is a large spacer block...those small corrections in steering combined with that rear end could be causing ROLL and you have to then re-correct your input...
Poke your head under your Ex and if no rear sway bar...get a Hellwig from JCWhitney for under $200 delivered to your door...less than 1 hr install time and you'll have a much better behaved Ex...
Shocks...well shocks are a key contributor to handling...if yours are OEM's with 49K on them...they are SHOT...you could be fighting a wander issue due to the front wheels hopping due to worn shocks...if those are OEM's...I'd suggest getting a set of Bilsteins from http://www.shockwarehouse.com/ and upon checkout enter 'fordtrucks' for a 5% discount...4 shocks delivered to your door will cost you ~$250.
Notice I am steering (no pun sorry) you AWAY from doing the steering box adjustment right away...while I know the steering box is a culprit...I think it gets tagged too quickly because it IS an EASY target...there are unfortunately other targets that should be at least evaluated first...and tire AIR pressure is a VERY easy one!
Finally Stewart pointed out the RAS and V/B code springs...our Ex's 'suffer' from having soft springs with a LARGE spacer block...all that weight of the Ex expecially under braking can warp those soft springs on one side...causing a rear axle mis-alignment...stiffer springs thru the V/B code (like Stewart did) or the RAS (like I did) reduces or eliminates that phenom. There is another option that many have good success with on here and that is called Landyot Radius Rods. I believe those do as they are designed to do. My only caution with those is that if you tow HEAVY with your truck...you will need to supplement your rear springs some how.
My option involves TWO items either the RAS and Hellwig OR the V/B and Hellwig. Both of these TWO options SOLVE the issue...I know IT SOLVED MINE.
Going the radius rod route...you would need THREE items. Radius rods, Hellwig AND Air Bags (Or RAS OR V/B)...but you get the point...the radius rods address ONE aspect of the rear axle short coming and that is axle wrapping...they do NOTHING for rear spring capacity.
It is my opinion that the V/B code springs or RAS address TWO aspects (spring capacity AND axle wrapping).
If you NEVER plan to tow with your Ex...you may want to look at the radius rods...but for less $$$ you could add a RAS and accomplish a few things.
Sorry to type so much...my fingers just keep going some times...
Hope my info helps...if after you evaluate all the other areas I suggested...if THEN you still have this steering phenom...well....then the steering box should be looked into. I didn't mention tie rods because you said there wasn't a bunch of play...but the ONLY grease fittings you will find are on the tie rod ends...you may want to look at them too and hit them with some grease...
Good luck,
joe.
My X does have a factory rear sway bar. The tires are Michelin LTX M/S 265/75/R16 C Range tires that are currently at 55 PSI.
I bought the vehicle specifically to tow my boat (23' Malibu VLX about 5000 lbs loaded). This is far from the towing capacity so I'm not sure some of the modifications people are talking about are needed for my applicaiton. However if some of these mods add to an overall better driving experience no matter what the condition I will consider upgrading.
Thank you for so much info.
Chad
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 29,380
Likes: 118
From: Central Coast of CA
Originally Posted by ChazWiz
This is far from the towing capacity so I'm not sure some of the modifications people are talking about are needed for my applicaiton. However if some of these mods add to an overall better driving experience no matter what the condition I will consider upgrading.
Thank you for so much info.
Chad
Thank you for so much info.
Chad
The driving experience we now enjoy with my Excursion, after the spring swap a couple years back, makes for a very fun, enjoyable ride. My Excursion, in my opinion, can actually be described as nimble, and for it's size, handles all roads with an aplomb attitude not usually associated with a big vehicle, weighing as much as they do, with a higher than "normal" center of gravity.
And the towing with my rig is now like driving on autopilot.
While driving on a relatively flat road, I'll actually forget my 10k lb travel trailer is back there...until I need to change lanes!
Stewart
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12,237
Likes: 22
From: Florida
Originally Posted by ChazWiz
Joe
My X does have a factory rear sway bar. The tires are Michelin LTX M/S 265/75/R16 C Range tires that are currently at 55 PSI.
...
Chad
My X does have a factory rear sway bar. The tires are Michelin LTX M/S 265/75/R16 C Range tires that are currently at 55 PSI.
...
Chad
I agree with Stewart on the rear springs/RAS and a rear sway bar are 'required' equipment on the Ex...don't know why Ford let the Ex's out in this config.
Even UNLOADED many fight the wander issue...it is only COMPOUNDED when you attempt to tow.
After my mods...I tow my 9000# TT and roll down the road at 17,000# combined with one hand on the wheel and cruise control on...no constant steering wheel inputs...it tracks STRAIGHT and TRUE...that's why Stewart and I are so sold on these mods even for UNLOADED drivability...my Ex now handles very well just tooling around the roads...mind you it's no sports car...but it doesn't 'lumber' near as much as it DID!!!...so I'd say these improvements can be enjoyed by all Ex owners whether you tow or NOT!
Please verify whether what you typed about C range tires is accurate or a typo...because if you DO have C range tires...that could certainly be part of the issue...
joe.
Last edited by X_Hemi_Guy; Feb 11, 2008 at 08:20 AM.
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Originally Posted by X_Hemi_Guy
Chad did you MEAN that you have C Range tires or was that a typo???
Please verify whether what you typed about C range tires is accurate or a typo...because if you DO have C range tires...that could certainly be part of the issue...
joe.
Please verify whether what you typed about C range tires is accurate or a typo...because if you DO have C range tires...that could certainly be part of the issue...
joe.
Yes they are C range tires. After researching what range meant I dont understand why the previous owner put these tires on such a heavy vehicle. Seems to me it should have D or E range tires.
Chad
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,955
Likes: 9
From: Ohio
Originally Posted by ChazWiz
Joe,
Yes they are C range tires. After researching what range meant I dont understand why the previous owner put these tires on such a heavy vehicle. Seems to me it should have D or E range tires.
Chad
Yes they are C range tires. After researching what range meant I dont understand why the previous owner put these tires on such a heavy vehicle. Seems to me it should have D or E range tires.
Chad
Id go get those replaced now or else ur gonna have a blow out very soon!
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12,237
Likes: 22
From: Florida
Originally Posted by ChazWiz
Joe,
Yes they are C range tires. After researching what range meant I dont understand why the previous owner put these tires on such a heavy vehicle. Seems to me it should have D or E range tires.
Chad
Yes they are C range tires. After researching what range meant I dont understand why the previous owner put these tires on such a heavy vehicle. Seems to me it should have D or E range tires.
Chad
Those may be a big part of your issues...the side wall 'flex' on such a light range tire could indeed be causing a BIG part of your 'LAZY' feeling in the steering. Side wall flex is a major contributor to sway when towing...and could easily be your issue here.
From a WEIGHT range perspecitve...your C RANGE tires likely have a MAX psi of 50 and a MAX load of 4940# when inflated to 50psi.
For a point of reference the rear axle on my Ex when loaded with ONLY my family and gear for camping comes in at 4360#'s!!! That's BEFORE I drop my 1100# tongue on there. All loaded up with WD engaged I'm at 5300#'s on the rear axle!
In generic terms.
C Range tires have 6 ply sidewalls with 50psi MAX rating and 2470# per tire
D Range tires have 8 ply sidewalls with 65psi MAX rating and 3000# per tire
E Range tires have 10 ply sidewalls with 80psi MAX rating and 3415# per tire
So one of the FIRST things I'd suggest would be swapping out those C's for some at least D's but better E's...but that is just my opinion...
Good luck!
joe.
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Originally Posted by X_Hemi_Guy
Chad,
Those may be a big part of your issues...the side wall 'flex' on such a light range tire could indeed be causing a BIG part of your 'LAZY' feeling in the steering. Side wall flex is a major contributor to sway when towing...and could easily be your issue here.
From a WEIGHT range perspecitve...your C RANGE tires likely have a MAX psi of 50 and a MAX load of 4940# when inflated to 50psi.
For a point of reference the rear axle on my Ex when loaded with ONLY my family and gear for camping comes in at 4360#'s!!! That's BEFORE I drop my 1100# tongue on there. All loaded up with WD engaged I'm at 5300#'s on the rear axle!
In generic terms.
C Range tires have 6 ply sidewalls with 50psi MAX rating and 2470# per tire
D Range tires have 8 ply sidewalls with 65psi MAX rating and 3000# per tire
E Range tires have 10 ply sidewalls with 80psi MAX rating and 3415# per tire
So one of the FIRST things I'd suggest would be swapping out those C's for some at least D's but better E's...but that is just my opinion...
Good luck!
joe.
Those may be a big part of your issues...the side wall 'flex' on such a light range tire could indeed be causing a BIG part of your 'LAZY' feeling in the steering. Side wall flex is a major contributor to sway when towing...and could easily be your issue here.
From a WEIGHT range perspecitve...your C RANGE tires likely have a MAX psi of 50 and a MAX load of 4940# when inflated to 50psi.
For a point of reference the rear axle on my Ex when loaded with ONLY my family and gear for camping comes in at 4360#'s!!! That's BEFORE I drop my 1100# tongue on there. All loaded up with WD engaged I'm at 5300#'s on the rear axle!
In generic terms.
C Range tires have 6 ply sidewalls with 50psi MAX rating and 2470# per tire
D Range tires have 8 ply sidewalls with 65psi MAX rating and 3000# per tire
E Range tires have 10 ply sidewalls with 80psi MAX rating and 3415# per tire
So one of the FIRST things I'd suggest would be swapping out those C's for some at least D's but better E's...but that is just my opinion...
Good luck!
joe.
Well I guess it gives me an excuse to get the BFG All Terrains I wanted.Thanks again for all the useful information.
Chad
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,955
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From: Ohio
Originally Posted by ChazWiz
I was afraid of that. I wish I would have been more informed and paying closer attention when I bought the vehicle Well I guess it gives me an excuse to get the BFG All Terrains I wanted.
Thanks again for all the useful information.
Chad
Well I guess it gives me an excuse to get the BFG All Terrains I wanted.Thanks again for all the useful information.
Chad
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Originally Posted by i eat hybrids
What load and size are u going to get?
Chad
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IMO I still wouldn't feel comfortable with D range tires mainly because of the shear size of the Excursion, so I would go with the E range tires.
I believe one of the reasons behind the recall of the tires on the Excursions back when was partly because of the D range tires from the factory, it was not enough to support the Excursion.
I believe one of the reasons behind the recall of the tires on the Excursions back when was partly because of the D range tires from the factory, it was not enough to support the Excursion.
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I noticed nobody answered Chaz's third question about slight driveline clunk when moving from a stop. This is usually caused by a lack of grease on the splines on the two piece driveshaft. Ford sells a special purpose lithium grease for this purpose. Cost isn't bad.
For more info on this use the search procedure. It's an easy fix for an irritating problem.
For more info on this use the search procedure. It's an easy fix for an irritating problem.
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Originally Posted by mcjones44us
I noticed nobody answered Chaz's third question about slight driveline clunk when moving from a stop. This is usually caused by a lack of grease on the splines on the two piece driveshaft. Ford sells a special purpose lithium grease for this purpose. Cost isn't bad.
For more info on this use the search procedure. It's an easy fix for an irritating problem.
For more info on this use the search procedure. It's an easy fix for an irritating problem.
Chad
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Posts: 1,714
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by ChazWiz
Excellent info Stewart but my steering doesnt have slop it has the "wander" feel like so many have described on this forum. Do you still think adjusting steering box will help?
Out of the "RAS", "V and B Code Springs" and sway bars what helps most to prevent this wandering feeling or is it an all or nothing sort of deal? Looks like the front and rear sway bar setup would run about 400.00 according to this site (http://www.suspensionconnection.com/cgi-bin/suscon/scan/fi=products/st=db/co=1/sf=category/se=Sway%20Bars/op=eq/nu=0/sf=veh_make/se=Ford/op=eq/nu=0/sf=model/se=Excursion/op=eq/nu=0/ml=25/tf=category/to=x/tf=veh_make/to=x/tf=model/to=x/tf=description/to=r.html). After reading several forum posts looks like the V and B code Springs are Ford F250 OEM parts, I guess I can contact them for the price. However I think Im going to take it in for dealer service (I still am under an extended waranty) and complain about the steering wander issue and state that it is very dangerous and is a posible liability for them and see if they are willing to do anything.
Again thanks for the help,
Chad
Out of the "RAS", "V and B Code Springs" and sway bars what helps most to prevent this wandering feeling or is it an all or nothing sort of deal? Looks like the front and rear sway bar setup would run about 400.00 according to this site (http://www.suspensionconnection.com/cgi-bin/suscon/scan/fi=products/st=db/co=1/sf=category/se=Sway%20Bars/op=eq/nu=0/sf=veh_make/se=Ford/op=eq/nu=0/sf=model/se=Excursion/op=eq/nu=0/ml=25/tf=category/to=x/tf=veh_make/to=x/tf=model/to=x/tf=description/to=r.html). After reading several forum posts looks like the V and B code Springs are Ford F250 OEM parts, I guess I can contact them for the price. However I think Im going to take it in for dealer service (I still am under an extended waranty) and complain about the steering wander issue and state that it is very dangerous and is a posible liability for them and see if they are willing to do anything.
Again thanks for the help,
Chad