Figured I'd tell you before someone else did..........it's spelled maGic, not maJic. Thought you would like to know.

TBirdGuy

"Stuck with a m*par, Settle for a ch*vy, Happy with a Ford!!!!"

 

Yah I know...you've been "dissing" the 400 in every forum you post in. It's getting pretty monotonous.

It's not about my choice of cams, it's about not blaming the motor because you put in the wrong cam. The only thing the 400 gives away to a 460 of the same era besides the 60 cubes (which ain't chicken feed) is the compression ratio. It has a significantly longer stroke than the 460 and with the right cam and a 4V carb can put out some serious numbers even without bumping the compression.

I'm not here to start a huge argument, I'm just a little tired of M block bashing.

 

You guys sound like a bunch of chevy lovers, to stubborn to look around.

The compression has alot to do with how these engines perform. The 351M/400M head will flow more than the FAMOUS camel back'd chevy heads. The chevy factory could get as much horsepower as they wanted to out of their "camel back" heads.

The 351M/400M was based off the 351C. That was a kick azz small block in my opion. Just about the only difference between a 351C 2bbl and a 351M is the bolt pattern at the back of the block, and COMPRESSION.

 

I think there is more of a difference between the 351-C and the 351-M than just a bolt pattern and compression. They are completely different blocks, with totally different cylinder heads. You can, however, put 351-C heads on a 351-M if you get spacers I believe from Edelbrock that takes up the difference in deck height. They have completely different blocks also. The intakes are different (obviously because of the difference in the deck height). Granted, the 351-M does have significantly lower compression, but that wasn't the only difference.

TBirdGuy

"Stuck with a m*par, Settle for a ch*vy, Happy with a Ford!!!!"

 

lol, i cant spell.

 

>I think there is more of
>a difference between the 351-C
>and the 351-M than just
>a bolt pattern and compression.
> They are completely different
>blocks, with totally different cylinder
>heads.

Actually M series blocks are simply tall deck Clevelands. Cam, waterpump, timing sets, valve train even the pistons will fit if you bush the rods.

351C 2V heads and M series heads are absolutely identical. 4V heads are different animals but they still fit the M series. One other interesting thing, M heads have 2.04/1.66 I/E valves. Stock 460s have 2.08/1.66 I/E valves. M heads flow incredibly well for stock heads and the valves are almost as big as the 460s.

>You can, however,
>put 351-C heads on a
>351-M if you get spacers
>I believe from Edelbrock that
>takes up the difference in
>deck height.

The only thing you need spacers for is if you want to put a Cleveland intake manifold on an M series motor.

 

>The compression has alot to do
>with how these engines perform.
>
>The 351M/400M was based off the
>351C. That was a
>kick azz small block in
>my opion. Just about
>the only difference between a
>351C 2bbl and a 351M
>is the bolt pattern at
>the back of the block,
>and COMPRESSION.

No doubt compression plays a big part in horsepower. My point was that by the mid 1970s even the vaunted 460 had most of it's gonads removed by the smog police and was running with giant comb. chambers to lower the compression and was rated at about 200 hp. This was the same time when the 400 was rated at 185 hp because of it's large comb. chambers and low compression. Put a 4V on the 400 and compare it to a 4V 460 and it's not much of a difference despite the lack of cubes.

 

The smog police do thier best to sick the fun out of everything. We can pollute space, dump toxic waste everywhere but motors with *****? NO NO NO thats not good for the environment. Oh well.

Side question:
I have a 78 ford bronco, and i live in Nebraska. Is it illegal to remove all the smog junk when I change motors?

 

It sure is nice to find a post where people actually reply in, i put 2 up that no one helped me in so i will ask my question in a message that people have an interest in. I have a 460 and was wondering if i change the compression, what can i change it to, to be able to still burn farm gas and get better performance? also, even though it sounds stupid, i was wondering if there is any common sense in swapping this engine for a 302/351w? i am only 16 and am looking for a LITTLE fuel economy, plus i have an AOD that fits this small block. I was also thinkin that i should sell the tranny and save for a 460 AOD??????? you guys know whats best. I also can rebuild the 460 for under 2000 canadian and get 400+ HP!!!!
AND QUIT ARGUING, THEY ARE ALL FORDS! PEOPLE HAVE THEIR FAVORITES BUT STILL, YOU ARGUE WORSE THAN THE KIDS AT SCHOOL. some may be better than others but the poor, and innocent 351c has nothing to do with the argument, drop it and spare this little hellraiser the pain and suffering.
Thanx 4 any help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

the 351c is a great motor, I have a cleveland block but no heads.

 

this is so funny. it would take alot more than just a 4v to make a 400 perform with a 429/460.

1st i'm talking about a pre 72 429/460, you know, groundpounders, if you have one, you know what i'm saying!!!!!! if not, you have no clue.

2ndly, you folks that have these 351m400's, don't sit here and blow smoke up my a#$ about how this small block compares to a big block!!!!!!!!!!!! you can build a 600hp 302, but if you took the same money to build up a small block, and put it in a big block, well, the small blocks wouldnt compare. after all, how many monster trucks, professional mud boggers and truck pullers do you see running small blockS?????? NONE and by professionals, i mean 1500-2500hp vehicles.

3rd, just because someone has never owned or built a 400, doesnt mean that they dont know anything about them. it just means were smart enough not to waste money on them.

********example**********

lets take a same year 400 and a 460, and just for a goof, lets say we decide to spend 500-600 bucks, and we also decide to go with an edelbrock performance pkg. (carb, cam and intake) and lets not get excited over the edelbrock choice. it really doesnt matter about which namebrand, because we've decided to use IDENTICAL PARTS in each motor. now, which motor makes more power???????? i'm not asking which one comes close, i asked which one makes more power, so don't say dollar for dollar the 400 compares to the 460, because it doesnt.

now, you guys watch, someone is going to disagree with what i just said.

 

>this is so funny. it
>would take alot more than
>just a 4v to make
>a 400 perform with a
>429/460.

Glad you find this so humorous, that's what we're here for...to entertain you. I don't think anyone will disagree that it takes more than a 4V to make an M series compare to a 385. My point was/is that if you compare the 400 to the 460 when they both went to the low C.R. for emissions purposes the differences aren't very much taking into account the CID.

>1st i'm talking about a
>pre 72 429/460, you know,
>groundpounders, if you have
>one, you know what i'm
>saying!!!!!! if not, you
>have no clue.

You can't compare a high comp motor to a low comp motor. It's apples to oranges so quit trying...

>2ndly, you folks that have
>these 351m400's, don't sit here
>and blow smoke up my
> a#$ about how this
>small block compares to a
>big block!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nobody's trying to blow smoke into any orifice...and you need to watch your language in these forums or the moderator will get on your case and/or close this thread. Obviously in the professional arena you go for the biggest engine that class rules will allow so naturally a stroked 385 series would be the choice. What's your point? There also seems to be a lot more BB Ch*vys in competition than BB Fords so does that mean they're a better motor??

>3rd, just because someone has
>never owned or built a
>400, doesnt mean that they
>dont know anything about them.
> it just means were
>smart enough not to waste
>money on them.

blah...blah...blah...heard it all before. Spoken like someone who's never built a 400...

>********example**********
>
>lets take a same year 400
>and a 460, and just
>for a goof, lets say
>we decide to spend 500-600
>bucks, and we also decide
>to go with an edelbrock
>performance pkg. (carb, cam and
>intake) and lets not get
>excited over the edelbrock choice.
> it really doesnt matter
>about which namebrand, because we've
>decided to use IDENTICAL PARTS
>in each motor.
> now, which motor
>makes more power???????? i'm not
>asking which one comes close,
>i asked which one makes
>more power, so don't say
>dollar for dollar the 400
>compares to the 460, because
>it doesnt.

What year motor? It makes a big difference in case you weren't aware. The 460 is always going to make "more power" if you're talking strictly hp, it's got 60 more cubes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. However assuming a comparable C.R. for both motors it's very possible that the 400 will make more torque lower down than the 460 because of the significantly longer stroke.

 

Well said Bill, we might as well leave it at that. We are dealing with a bunch of 16 year olds here...............

 

Hey now, I am 20 I'll have you know. Not 16. I never said that it couldn't be done that a 400 could out powr a 460. All I've said is that GENERALLY the 460 is a more powerful motor. Just as a question, why is it powerboat driver's use 460 power instead of 400? It's not because they can rev the 460 higher than a 400 because of it's shorter stroke, but it's because of the 460's legacy of proven performance, reliablity, and durability. I'm not saying a 400 isn't powerful, reliable, or durable...just in MY PERSONAL opinion that 460's are superior. If you disagree, that's fine. That's what makes the world interesting, people's difference in opinion. I don't criticize you for your opinion, and I would appreciate not having myself or those that agree with me criticized for our opinion either. Thank you.

TBirdGuy

"Stuck with a m*par, Settle for a ch*vy, Happy with a Ford!!!!"

 

Ok. I did not want to start a big argument. Just wanted some opinions on which I got and there are some good ones. Now that I'll be rebuilding my 460 I need to know what parts would be best to use like cam and pistons mainly.

I am going to try and find some 71 460/429 heads with the screw in rocker studs (If you ahve a set lemme know. My block is a 71 so I want to try and get most of it the same year. Also whats a good carb? Vacum sec. or a double pumper I'm not really what the main differences are in those.

No remember were all in the same "Ford" Family and all the engines have there positives and negatives. And lets just be happy they say Ford and the not "c" word.


--------------------
1985 "Cowboy Cadillac" Ford F-250 4x4, Granny 4-speed, 4:10 Gears, 460 with Holley 750cfm 4-barrel Carb, Custom Painted Block (Ford Dark Blue), Rebuilt Transfer Case, BFG Trac-Edges, Tachometer, Kenwood CD Player and Pioneer Speakers, 27" cherry bombs dualed out each side with 2 1/2 inch pipe, NAPA Premium Clutch, NAPA Premium timing Chain, Gooseneck Ball, Hitch Reciever, Whistler 400 radar detector!

"When in Doubt GAS it"