Hey, what's a guy gotta do around here to get some credit? Post #7, my first in this thread, I recommended checking the gross combined weight rating.

Get a life dude. Anybody that knows anything about tow ratings knows they are very subjective. Towing a flat bed trailer loaded with 7500 lbs of lead is way different that towing a 28 ft travel trailer with a roof rack.

The weight of the load is only one part of the equasion. The aerodrag is nearly as big an issue, as is the load's CG and distribution. Also, the towing environment is just as important. Occasionally, towing your boat a 30 minutes, at sea level, to the lake is very different than towing a big travel trailer through the rockies, day after day after day. The manufacturer has to consider all of these extremes when deriving a tow rating. Its also why I told the poster that he was probably OK towing the load he described under the conditions he described. Had he said he and his family would be towing that trailer, along with the kids and all of their stuff, back and forth across the country for the duration of the summer vacation, I would have made a different recommendation.

Steve
'95 Clubwagon XLT

 

Thanks for all the info. I'll try it but like I said, I don't plan on going cross country. any long trips will be taken in the truck. 200 to San Diego but mostly 150 each way of fairly flat freeeway driving in traffic ( 3-5 hours each way) I'll go on a few short trips to see and if it is too hard on the van I won't do it again. Like I said I don't need to get an ulser trying to get the trailer someplace when I could use the truck instead. I never planned on taking the van with the trailer down to Baja or anything like that.

I've got a lot of good info and a lot of it makes sence.

Like I said I think the engine may be the week link in the system. With the weight distrubution hitch, trailer brakes, and heavy duty suspension, the rest of the van should be ok. After all the only difference between my van and one with 10k tow capacity is the engine (along with the accessories that go with a heavy tow package, trans cooler).

Thanks again for the info.

 

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“Reinventing the wheel”

<o =""></o>To make a long story short, you can find everything I suggested in your owner’s manual.

<o =""></o>It’s not “reinventing the wheel” to follow what the manual tells you. Why do you think your data plate has the load ratings for each axle stated individually? Why do tires have their load ratings stamped in the side of them? What about your hitch components? It is not hard to overload one or more components while staying within the bounds of overall ratings.



What good are the published figures if you don’t put them to the use they were intended for?

<o =""></o>I never suggested that towing the load in question was prudent or not prudent. I told him how to determine that for himself. What he chooses to do with the information is up to him.

<o =""></o>Some posters to the thread covered some of the same things that I did. Apologies if you are offended. No one covered how, (according to your manual) you determine what YOUR vehicle will tow in any given situation, with all of the variables that come into play.

<o =""></o><o =""></o>Gene

 

Thanks so much for your reply. My own Econoline towing experience is strictly limited to few more than 30 years driving 3 E-150's pulling a variety of boat, utility, U-Haul & car hauling trailers, both under & over FORD's "recommendation".

I'll stick w/FORD's published 6700 lb "recommendation" for maximum loaded trailer behind that vehicle & the personal opinion that FORD's "recommendation" is conservative. Thought that this widely published figure should be included in this discussion. IMO the figure has "purpose" & is not a "lie" its simply FORD's "recommendation".

If you're seeking "credit" here, I sincerely wish you luck. I interjected the actual published figure & fact that it was arrived at w/only 150 lb driver & you're flinging "Get a life" & "anybody that knows anything" at me? "Dude"?

 

One thing about that FORD sales literature's maximum loaded trailer weight recommendation is that it didn't come with any dire warnings. Whereas you "can find" this 'disclaimer' in my Econoline owner's manual:

"WARNING: If the GVWR or the GAWR's specified on the Safety Compliance Certification label are exceeded, your vehicle may be damaged or you may lose control and injure someone.
Towing trailers beyond the maximum recommended gross trailer weight exceeds the limits of the vehicle and could result in engine damage, transmission/axle damage, structural damage, loss of control, and personal injury."

I look forward to someone else doing the manual's math in this case so we can judge how far off the figure from sales brochure is. Please forgive me for assuming FORD had done the math, that's the only "wheel" I'd thought was already in place.

Can I presume we're all aware that FORD's recommended maximums are commonly exceeded in this Do What You've Gotta Do world?

 

With all of that experience you were relating, I would think you would understand the difference in towing weight vs. aero-drag. And the difference in towing on flat level ground at sea level vs. traversing the Eisenhower Tunnel at 11,000+ feet of altitude.

If you want to compare experience, I have over half a million miles towing everything from a two horse trailer to a 45ft goose neck race car hauler. I have made more coast to coast runs than I can count. My current Clubwagon has about 250,000 towing miles on it. 30 years? In 1977 I was hauling horses between Ocala, Florida to Lexington, Kentucky, with a Ford F250.

Credit? Geez, I was just poking some good natured fun. Gene had just posted regarding GCVWR as if it was new. Its not a big deal.

Steve
'95 Clubwagon XLT

 

Is 8160lb the combined weight of the trailer with the truck?

 

No, just the trailer with a typical load for a weekend of camping. About 20 gal of water ( when I get the the campsite I usally fill the tanks if there aren't any hook ups). I always keep the trailer fully stocked with food and full propane with the generator on the back. We live in earthquake / fire country and it is always good to have teh trailer ready incase we have to leave the house.

I don't remember what the full up load is with the truck / trailer but it is on the scale sheet. But the combined truck trailer weight is about 16K lbs.

 

Your chassis looks like it will do fine with the weight. The transmission may be fine if it is the same as behind the V-10 or diesel engine. I looked to see what the GVWR was on the van, and the only ones listed above 16,000 were the V-10 and Diesel units and this was with the 3.73 and 4.10 gear sets. This would tell me that the chassis is strong enough to handle the load. The 5.4 would be a little light for that application though.

 

With all due respect & admiration AND giving full credit where credit is due "I would think you would understand" that responses to Surfdaddy's post should be directed to Surfdaddy's unique towing situation AND not be overly concerned with hypothetical extreme alternatives.

Surfdaddy was asking about his own E350 towing his own 8160 lb trailer over familiar/ordinary routes. I would think everyone understands that IF you radically changed these parameters you'd alter towing characteristics. IMO this was not an inquiry into alternative towing extremes, be it high elevation mountain towing or a flat bed loaded w/lead. That's NOT what Surfdaddy asked about. The "aero-drag" generated by his travel trailer will not change unless he modifys it, the center of gravity will not change unless he decides to load it in a peculiar way.

All I did was point out how his 8160 lb loaded trailer compares to FORD's published 6700 lb maximum loaded trailer weight recommendation & further explained that weight was arrived at using an unloaded van w/150 driver. More than once I've mentioned how common it is for FORD owners 'wink' at factory recommendations.

I was NOT "just poking some good natured fun". I'd responded earnestly to Surfdaddy's concerns & now to the "combined truck trailer weight is about 16K lbs". That deserves SERIOUS consideration, since it appears to exceed published ratings for his E350 Club Wagon.

No, this is NOT to "compare experience" or respond to who "knows anything" just as its NOT to consider hypothetical alternatives. IMO this is about how Surfdaddy's 8160 lb loaded trailer & ~16K lb combined weights "compare" to FORD's '06 E350 Club Wagon recommendations. Only V10 & Diesel E350 Club Wagons w/4.10 had GCWR recommended for 16K lb. Whether its a "big deal" or not is subjective & however "big" or small, its Surfdaddy's "deal". My estimate is that he may be ~3000 lb over the GCWR, now that he added info on the total load. That seems to exceed FORD's rating by ~18%. Others can judge if that's a "big deal".

I've been willing to quantify, Surfdaddy's been willing to quantify, FORD certainly does quantify. Where do you stand? Does he exceed FORD's rating or not? By about how much? Are FORD's ratings conservative or optimistic? Or are these FORD maximum/ratings just "a lie" which "serve no purpose in the real world"? You know my opinion. "Good natured fun" aside-what's yours?

If you like "poking some good natured fun" let's talk about getting stuck crawling behind heavily overloaded vehicles, on steep twisty 2 lanes, that don't have the ability to get out of their own way, OR your best C&P photo of a tow vehicle dangling by it's hitch after overworked brakes failed, where only the overloaded trailer prevented it from falling off the precipice, OR tales of the most unbelievably mangled parts, twisted beyond recognition, by extreme abuse.

PS: For some real "fun" can anyone enlighten us on legal issues resulting from accidents involving vehicles towing loads which exceed manufacturers' published ratings? I would think that insurance companys could be well within their rights to deny claims in instances where operators ignored widely published maximums/ratings found in advertising literature, owner's manuals, on door jam stickers & hitch components. Hypothetically, I would think that a court fight over a serious Loss of Control accident could be hot water for an E350 operator, if it was established their load exceeded FORD's rating by 3000 lb. Perhaps a quick call to the insurance agent could determine what constitutes a "big deal"? My premium is due next week, I'll inquire.

 

This is the point I was trying to bring out. The larger engine units with the lower gear sets are able to pull loads over 16,000 lbs. That would tell me that the chassis is strong enough for such weights, since they would have the same brakes, axle ratings and frame strength as the smaller engine units. Stopping and maneuvering would be fine with that amount of weight. It is the "get the weight moving and keep it moving" that would be the issue. I agree that if you are involved in a accident and you were found to be over your GMVW it would be looked at very closely. For me that would not be worth the headache.

 

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. My truck (F250 V10 4X4 Super Duty) and trailer hooked up and ready for a trip weighs about 16K. I HAVE NOT even hooked up the trailer to the van yet. I was asking this question in order to get an opinon, and to see what the difference in tow ratings are. I looked at the V10 and and diesel ratings. They are much higher than the 5.4 engine. I know that the engine would be the weak link in the system. The van would be under powered trying to go cross country and over moutianous terrain, as well as high elevation. Heck, I even get a little worried towing the trailer with the truck trying to go over the grapevine or up sherman grade. The most hills I would see in the van at worst case would be 1/2 to 1 mile of a 6% grade, and they all have "Truck Lanes" for the slow trucks going 30 -45 mph up the hill.
I thought someone in the network here may have been in this position before and could give some insight into what there exsperence were and what I could expect.

One point I was trying to make was that with the trailer ready to go, loaded for a typical weekend weighs 1260 more than the factory rating for my van. Since I don't come even close to the load capacity of the van (2 adults 5 smaller kids, which the oldest is 13 ) would, in the general opinion, that be too much for the van to handle. And since I don't load the van down is the rating based on "full load" in the van or "Empty" with no gas and one driver how weighs 150 lbs.

How much does Ford claim with the F150 now equipped with the 5.4 engine and 3:73 gears. I think they say something like 9000lbs ( I am probably off on the number) but the suspension is still rated for a half ton truck. A few weeks ago I was asked by 3 different friends that wanted to buy trailer, they liked the size and type of trailer that I have and were looking to buy a truck, all three of them asked if I had any thoughts of the new F150. They told me the rating was in the parameters of there trailers that they wanted to get. I told them that I was sceptical of the tow ratings since the max tow was only a few hundred pounds less than a 5.4 F250. My van is rated at one ton but the engine horsepower is too light to tow anything over 6700lbs. So where and how do they come up with these numbers.

 

The equation that sticks out in my mind is this one:

1 van divided by 5 small children (3 that are someone else’s) + 2 adults + 1 overweight trailer + way more stuff than you think you will be hauling, especially on the return trip=?

After your last question I did a Google search on "How are trailer towing ratings derived?" to see if there was something more about it that I had missed over the years. If you do the same search I think you will find the articles or forum postings from the links on the first page of search results alone very interesting. Many are from such sources as Trailer Life Magazine and so on and oddly enough, they say pretty much what I told you before. I should mention that I have never read any of them before.

I saw these topics come up a few times.

Weight ratings are optimistic and are primarily used for sales purposes.

You have to do some weighing and calculating to determine what your rig will tow with the load you intend to haul.

I will add that weight ratings are maximums.

Why would a business whose primary advertising approaches are horsepower figures and tow ratings publish figures that are not as high as they can live with? This would include warranty concerns, competitive concerns and safety concerns. If Ford thinks your engine lacks the guts for the job why are they wrong?


Here are a few of them.

http://www.trailerlife.com/downloads/2005/Towing_p7_9.pdf

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/consumer/163_0702_designated_driver/index.html

http://members.aol.com/stephndudb/weights.html


This quote came from a post in the forum located at the link that I shortened using the Tiny URL above. I thought it was interesting.

BOTTOM LINE: IF you trust the experienced trailerists who have been
there and done that and don't want to go back, you will not exceed
about 75% of the rated maximum. The number is of course not writ by
the finger of God on a stone tablet - it is merely an indication that
you should stay well below the manufacturer's maximum allowance if you
want a safe, comfortable trip. Some say the figure ought to be as low
as 50 or 60%. But except for a few macho braggarts, most experienced
folks agree in principle if not detail with these concerns.

Gene

 

If you take a look at these pdf files you will see that the GCWR is nearly the same between the e-150 and f150.
http://www.fordvehicles.com/assets/pdf/towing/08ECN_towing.pdf

http://www.fordvehicles.com/assets/pdf/towing/08F15_towing.pdf
There are many factors that are included when considering towing. Gear ratio, wheel base, tire size, rear overhang, exposed frontal surface, brakes, axles, springs, cooling, transmission, engine, to name a few. I would say that the F-150 can carry more weight because the truck itself is lighter than the E-350. This would make sense since the E-350 would have heavier axles to be rated a 1 ton. With the same engine option and axle ratio the F-150 can pull more because it weights less. If you notice the E-150 actually has a higher tow rating than other E models. For the vehicle to haul more (on itself) it needs heavier axles, breaks, cooling systems that weigh more which take away from the tow rating. Hope this makes sense.

 

Trying to stick within Surfdaddy's original Q, take another look at the '06 FORD E-Series brochure & "actually" you'll "notice" the fallacy in your comment.

If we include the Van w/Wagons, so as to add E250 to the mix, you'll "notice" FORD's advertised maximum loaded trailer weights, as well as GCWRs, contradict your statement. The highest trailer rating for E150 offered was 6900, for E250 7500, & for E350 10,000 lbs.