I thought that they would down rate the capacity because it is a passenger van and not cargo. You know, base the tow rating based on full passenger load (12 people @ 150lbs each plus cargo). If I tow with it is would just be to the camp sites along the coast, mostly freeway with out too many steep hills. Maybe I'll look to engine performance mods, to make it a little easier on the hills.

 

I would assume the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight rating would be with both vehicles at their GVWR. So the clubwagon has people and the panel van has cargo.

Now that I think about it, you may be right. My van handles differently loaded with people instead of cargo. This is because the people sit on the seats and therefore the weight is higher. The cargo sits on the floor so the CG is lower. Hmmm.... that maybe at least part of the reason.

Still, I tow my racecar (car + trailer = 4000 lbs) and the van loaded with 1000 lbs of cargo/equipment.

Steve
'95 Clubwagon XLT

 

Woah! 8900lbs., No Way! I own an '05 E350 12pass with 5.4 and 3.73rear, you are dreaming! Don't get me wrong, the chassis will handle the load, and do it well, with plenty of gusto, but your engine will be taxed, in a democratic, Hillary Clinton, nationalized health care sort of way! (Or perhaps even in a George Bush funding a foreign war sort of way!)
Having towed a 5000 lb trailer all over TX, CO, OK and AR, I would say you will be able to limp by, but don't plan on accelerating. The 5.4 can be used, but make sure you start on level ground or down hill with the 4speed tranny, cause you will only be able to utilize 3 of the 4 gears, esp. w/that weight. You will still want an after-market tranny temp gauge, and keep an eye on it, as even the stock tranny oil cooler will be taxed out with that your weight.
Your 5.4 is a hoss of an engine, it puts down the most torque at a lower rev (2500rpm) then any other factory engine out there, but it won't pull at any kind of speed. You are limited solely on HP #'s for this equation, and in reality it is all about where the TQ hits the HP on your given engine curve. Tach it up, I tow at 2700rpm in 3rd (locked out of OD) and make appx 8mpg @ 65mph, yes 8mpg!
The E350 van is well designed to haul a load of mirgrant farm workers, or in my case a load of kids, but when you attach a sail of a trailer all the HP calculations change, add a hill and it changes even more, then add elevation or a head wind and it is game over!
I firmly believe that the 5.4 is the best buy for towing under 4000lb. travel trailers, but go beyond that and you might as well buy the v10, or if your a gambler, the 6.0 diesel. I would rate the E350 5.4 w/a flat bed trailer at 6000lbs, due to less wind drag.
While tempted to go to a 4.10 rear end ($1000-$1500), I have not, while it would accelerate better the HP calculations determine that my desired towing speed could not be attained out of overdrive. Good luck!

 

I wouldn't be too quick to discount the possibility FORD may have published different numbers, made errors or as most brochures indicate, changed specifications since printing.

The numbers I quoted are from an '06 dealer sales brochure.

In addition to the weight of extra equipment, I'd thought Club Wagons had softer springs & sometimes, lower rated tires than equivalent cargo Vans.

For your situation you need to guesstimate how much load you carry in excess of the "150-lb driver" since FORD "thought" that's the way they were going to arrive at "Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight".

Couple of suggestions for folks who routinely thumb their noses at those, often considered conservative, FORD specs. Pay special attention to brakes & tires.

 

The van has 10 ply tires (load range E), I don' think the springs are softer since it rides the same as a cargo van. I know the chassis is strong enough but like I said, I don't think there is enough HP. I wouldn't be going on any mountian trips, mostly to the beach with the kids. The freeways are fairly flat and since it is the beach the elevation is not a problem ( I live at 1200 feet). I don't think I ever get over 50 mph because of traffic going anywhere near the beach areas. If I decide to try I would go to the closest beach, which is a very flat road. 56 miles to go from 1200 feet to sea level with a 50mph speed limit (which the CHP has speed traps everywhere)

When I bought this I was going to sell my truck and use the money to convert the van to 4X4 ( there are two companies that Ford allows that would be under factory warranty for $12K ). The reason I haven't done it yet is being able to tow the trailer without killing the van, or getting an ulser trying to go a long distance. beleive it or not my wife talked me out of it saying that she didn't think anything would tow the trailer as well as our truck. I didn't really want to have two gas gusselers at one time. But it looks like I really have to think about it.

 

The 5.4 will definitely do it. It won't be a race horse, but it will get the job done. I've got the 5.4 in the Expedition (not an E-series, but still a fullsize truck) and towed a 25' enclosed trailer (4,000lbs empty) with my explorer inside of it and the truck spent most of the trip in overdrive. I also have 3.73s in the truck. I kept it around 65-70, but the truck had no problem going faster.

 

The tranny won't take it for long and the engine will be working its guts out. Your fuel mileage will be 6-7 mpg because there is no way to be nice to it even maintaining a steady speed.
Andrew.

 

I was told by the dealer that it is the same trans as my F250, which is what I tow the trailer with now, so I really think the trans and rearend are strong enough as well as the brakes. I was thinking about how I used to tow a trailer in the past that weighed almost the same with my 85 3/4 ton surburban ( with the 8500 gvw package) and what would be different. The HP on the 350 was only about 180 and there is suposed to be 250 for 5.4. Granted, I didn't go anywhere fast, but the speed limit is still 55 for towing in California anyway. But then again it was a long time ago.

 

The transmission should be the 4R100W. That's the unit Ford has used for years behind the V10 and Diesels. It should be up to the task as long as you aren't trying to force it to do what it doesn't want to.

Tow in Drive and take you time and you should be fine for what you described.

Steve
'95 Clubwagon XLT

 

The 4R100 is a darn good transmission. Overdrive is a clutched gear like the other 3 forward gears rather than using a band

 

It's been a while since I dropped in. Let me see if I can stir the pot a little bit.

"Tow ratings" are for advertising purposes only and serve no purpose in the real world. I'm not saying throw caution to the wind and that your vehicle will tow a lot more than the tow rating like a lot of people do. Just the opposite actually. I'm saying those numbers are very optimistic and can't be relied on.

The numbers you need to use to calculate what your van can tow are in your owner's manual, your door jamb, and on the weigh ticket from a public scale when you weigh your tow vehicle and your trailer. They are not found on Ford's web site or in their sales literature.

The Gross Combined Weight Rating is in the towing section of your manual. It is the maximum your total rig can weigh in its traveling condition on all axles combined. That includes Mom, Dad, the kids, the dog, fuel, all the stuff that you loaded in the van, the weight of the loaded trailer... everything resting on the contact patches of all tires in the rig.

The advertising figure, i.e., tow rating, on the other hand takes the minimum weight that your vehicle can weigh with a 150# driver, deducts that from the gross combined weight rating and tells you that you can tow what ever is left over. It's a lie. Why?

It doesn't take into account the other numbers involved. The gross vehicle weight rating for one. If you have a lot of cargo or passengers or fuel or any other sort of weight in your van (don't for get to include the weight of added accessories like a winch, towing receiver and shank, weight distribution system, your tool box etc), this figure could be exceeded when you add the tongue weight of the trailer to the van's weight.

Then there are the specific weight ratings of each axle. Neither should be exceeded, as determined by the actual weight on the scale, when loaded. Keep in mind that the larger engines are more powerful but they also weigh more so you can see some figures that may seem odd at first when you look at the Gross Combined charts. The Diesel, for example, weighs about 500# more than a 5.0 or 5.8.

Don't exceed the load rating of the tires in any position on your vehicle either.
Don't forget the load shift from the hitch to the front axle of the tow vehicle and to the trailer axles when you adjust your weight distribution hitch gear. It is very easy to over load the front axle on a vehicle with one of the heavier engines. While we don't have many 4 X 4 vans, if you happen to have one, that takes another roughly 500# bite out of your vehicles load bearing capacity.

My advice is to take your rig to the scales in travel configuration and plan on spending some time adjusting your hitch and moving things around to get a safe comfortable load for your vehicle. Many towing "experts" recommend staying at 80% or below the ratings for each component.

There was a thread in the towing section a year or two back from a guy who bought an F 250, crew cab, Powerstroke, 4X4 and found that he had about maxed out it's capacity with just the trucks equipment. It's pretty funny in an odd sort of way, but it is a good example of what I am saying. This is the same reason that the Clubwagon’s numbers may be slightly less than the cargo van’s numbers because they are deducting the weight of the added interior accessories from the total burden it can bear. Interior materials, opening windows, rear heat and air and so on. It has nothing to do with the intended use of either vehicle.

So to some up, use actual weights from a public scale. CAT scales are located all over the country, are very accurate, cost $8.00 per shot and are multi segment so you can weigh axles or sides separately.

I would also weigh your tow vehicle empty with a full load of fuel and record that number in your owner’s manual. You can then add the weight of EVERYTHING that wasn’t in it or on it for calculation purposes.

I hope my rambling was halfway understandable.

Gene

 

I've done this with my truck. Weighed the truck (full fuel) trailer combo, toung weight and trailer weight set up for typical travel. That's how I came up with the 8160lbs trailer weight. I didn't mention the 980lbs tounge weight, or the torsion bars for the weight distrubution hitch. Over the weekend I passed a E-350 towing a trailer that was compairable to mine, but I didn't see if it was a diesel ar V10. The axle, trans, and tire rating (10 ply) on the van are all the same as my truck, (A can't remenber about the spring rate).

 

Great post Gene.

You can also check the dump, recycling place, bottling plants and even some farmers have scales.

 

Chris said,
"Great post Gene"
Thanks,
Gene

Rich,
Good. Now you just need to go back to your owner’s manual and look at the Gross Combined Weight Ratings for your particular Club Wagon. Mine is a '94 E 150, so the way the Owner's Manual is laid out today may differ a little from the way mine is but it tells you in the fine print that they have only allowed for a 150# driver with no passengers or cargo. If you choose to carry a lot of passengers or cargo you will encroach on your useable towing load.

Be sure to also look at the data plate in the door jab and compare it to the actual weights that you have obtained at the scales to be sure that you haven't exceeded the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, Or either of the axle ratings or the tire ratings. While your at it make sure your hitch is up to the task including the rating of the draw bar and shank.

I'm not sure (you may have said earlier) if you are including the weight of water, waste, propane and cargo in your trailer or not but those things add up quickly and can affect handling of the trailer as you use up fresh water and fill up the waste tanks for example. Keep your trailer within it's ratings too.

So, it's a compromise. You can carry your load in the form of a trailer, passengers or cargo or some mixture of both but you can't max out one category without taking away from the others.

BTW, you gained the weight of the seat that you removed in usable cargo capacity. You can use a bathroom scale to see how much. If you have others that are not in use, they could stay at home too.

There are plenty of people who will tell you to ignore the rated capacity of your vehicle but I’m not one of them.

Be careful and enjoy your rig,

Gene

 

There's little reason to try to reinvent the wheel for each & every vehicle or attempt to narrow the figure down to the exact pound. This isn't brain surgery. I'm sure FORD has weighed the different models & put a lot of thinking into the numbers they publish & respectfully disagree w/your conclusion that they "serve no purpose in the real world".

IMO FORD's "maximum loaded trailer weight" serves an important comparative purpose & tends to be conservative. I'd already clarified that FORD's figure is w/150 lb driver-NOT a fully loaded van. In this case we're comparing the 6700 lb published maximum to 8160 lb taken from a scale.

You've suggested FORD's published 6700 lb number is "very optimistic" w/o offering another figure for comparison. This would only make towing the load in question even less prudent. We can all accept the fact that owners frequently exceed these published maximums, often by wide margins.

Are you also suggesting that the GCWR that is found in FORD sales literature is also "a lie"?