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Intermittant Truck Starting Problems

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Old Jan 28, 2008 | 06:50 PM
  #1  
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Intermittant Truck Starting Problems

Hi All,
I've been searching through the forums for weeks now with some good leads for solving my problem, but no solution so far so I thought I'd post my specific problem in hopes someone could answer a few questions I have remaining.

Truck: '01 F150 5.4L V8 40K miles (yes, only 40,000)

Several weeks ago on a cold-ish morning I came out of the grocery store to find the truck wouldn't start. The engine was turning over like a champ, but no go. Checked all the fuses, checked the inertia lock-out, etc.. Walked home, couldn't find anything obvious in the forums so I went back to the store to call in a tow truck to tow me to the shop. Decided to try the truck a couple more times and, wouldn't you know it, it started right up on the second try. Feeling lucky, I took the truck to emissions. It drove great and started right up after the tech shut it down to connect the OBD reader. When it came for me to start it again, though, the engine would turn over great but wouldn't catch. The tech told me to take the key out, ram it in and crank it quick. Did the trick...

Fast forward a few weeks later. The truck had been running perfectly until this morning. It had snowed last night so I was hoping to use the truck instead of my little Kia Rio. Surprise, surprise: good cranking but no fire. Out came the Chiltons and the forums which lead me to replace the fuel filter (done; some white "globules" noted in the fuel), check the relays (test good), check the voltage at the relays (good), check the fuses (good), check the inertial lock-out (done), check the camshaft position sensor (good) and finally the voltage at the fuel pump harness (~12V, give or take).

This all leads me to believe that, yup, the fuel pump is dead. I'll directly connect the pump leads to a battery just to verify, but if it is truly dead, I still have a few questions:
1) anyone else have a pump die at only 40K?
2) would a failing fuel pump exhibit these traits (poor starting, great running)?
3) any recommended fuel pump brands or would any 'ol NAPA part do the trick?
3) is it possible the pump has water-ice in it and is simply frozen? I admit to having using ARCO and other cheap gas almost exclusively.

Thankfully the truck is not my only driving option, so even if it takes me a few weeks to order up a new part and drop the fuel tank, it shouldn't be a problem...
 
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Old Jan 29, 2008 | 12:13 AM
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superdutymj
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From: La Crosse, Kansas
Could it possibly be in the ignition switch itself? if ramming the key in there worked like you said, that's where i would look...
 
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Old Jan 29, 2008 | 07:24 PM
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Do you have a spare key? Could be a bad key chip. I had a car that used to do this to, it turned out to be the crank sensor.
 
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Old Jan 29, 2008 | 11:25 PM
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Yes, I tried the spare key and it didn't make a difference.. Someone at work suggested that it could be the ignition itself, so I also tested voltage at the fuel pump relay while inserting and turning the key and saw the expected jump in voltage from 0VDC to 12VDC..

Thanks for the suggestions, though!
 
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Old Jan 30, 2008 | 04:49 PM
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Gumbyagain
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Do you smell fuel when you are cranking the truck? Have you checked for Spark. A little tricky on these trucks.
 
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Old Jan 30, 2008 | 05:22 PM
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sheetsd66
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I'd try checking the fuel pressure. Its possible to have a bad check valve or regulator that just doesn't let you build enough pressure. It'll run with low pressure once you get it cranked as long as you're just cruising around but it all goes away once you stand on it.
 
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Old Jan 30, 2008 | 08:14 PM
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superdutymj
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From: La Crosse, Kansas
the ignition switch may not be energizing the coils though...
 
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Old Jan 30, 2008 | 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sheetsd66
I'd try checking the fuel pressure. Its possible to have a bad check valve or regulator that just doesn't let you build enough pressure. It'll run with low pressure once you get it cranked as long as you're just cruising around but it all goes away once you stand on it.
Lacking a fuel pressure gauge (and being too miserly to go out and buy one), I took the poor-man's approach of depressing the Schrader valve on the fuel rail immediately after trying to start the truck. Based on what I've read, if I had any fuel pressure at all some amount of fuel should have leaked out. Nadda...

As for checking spark, sad-but-true, I'm still not 100% sure when looking at the top of this engine what all are fuel injectors and what all are coil-on-plugs. I figure it's not worth bothering, though, as if I have no fuel I'm already short one of the necessary 3.

The direct-to-battery test will take place on Friday morning shortly followed (if the battery doesn't work) by the mallet-applied-to-fuel-tank method.
 
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Old Jan 30, 2008 | 08:58 PM
  #9  
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superdutymj
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From: La Crosse, Kansas
you can get fuel pressure gauges pretty cheap at parts stores, 20 to 30 tops. you can probably even rent one from oreilly's or auto zone. i don't remember what the specs for fuel pressure are, but someone on here might. it's in your chiltons for sure. you'll also want to do a volume test. the fuel pressure tester will have a relief on it that you can bypass the guage and let the fuel out into a bottle or the ground. if you hit the relief and the truck dies, its either your pressure regulator or your pump. as for the coils and fuel injectors: the chrome rails you see on top of the engine running front to back will be plugged into the injectors, which are orange. The coils sit on top of your plugs and are fastened down to the intake manifold via 7mm screws, one per.
 
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Old Feb 1, 2008 | 01:05 PM
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I wouldn't have thought this would work, but I went out to the truck this morning and tried to start it and, surprise!...... Actually, no surprise, it still wouldn't start... No, what was surprising to me is that after thwacking the fuel tank with a mallet a few times, the truck did start up. Sure it took a couple of tries, but that is likely because of the new fuel filter and associated air in the lines.

So what's the vote: is the fuel pump dying so I should replace it now or is it nothing that a few tanks of gas and a good fuel addiditve won't remedy?? If it makes any difference, I did subsequently take the truck out for a drive and, after a few miles to warm up the engine, I did floor it and it managed to squeal the wheels a bit. Fuel pressure must not be too bad...
 
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Old Feb 1, 2008 | 11:26 PM
  #11  
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superdutymj
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From: La Crosse, Kansas
could have just been a filter and/or moisture, but doubtful. i would guess you're fuel pump is saying it's final farewells.
 
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Old Feb 2, 2008 | 10:35 AM
  #12  
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What does your odometers do when you turn the switch on? If it is dashes and not numbers check the relays in the under hood fuse box. This happened to mine a while back and that is what fixed it. Got the info from someone on this board. Do a search with my handle and you can find the posts. Hope this helps.
 
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Old Feb 5, 2008 | 01:00 PM
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Gumbyagain
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Just curious if you have repaired this yet & what You found to be the problem?
 
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Old Feb 5, 2008 | 03:16 PM
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It was the relay in the under hood fuse box. $8.00 from the dealer! Thanks,
 
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