What size injectors are in a stock 97 460.? Are the aftermarket ones better like Accel?

Chad

 

I think they're 19 pound/hour injectors with the mass air flow system.

Why do you ask? Unless one is bad, I wouldn't swap them out unless you change a whole lot of other stuff. The computer knows how much fuel your stock injectors will deliver per squirt and calculates how much to inject based on the air flow into the engine. If you change to a different type of injector with a different flow, your computer will need a custom program.

 

Mostly just for info. I once heard the the stock injectors varied from one injector to another quite a bit in flow and spray pattern. Just looking for more performance.

Thanks
Chad

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 05-Mar-02 AT 05:44 PM (EST)]White top injectors on some engines mainly the MAF 460's from 97 were 19# hr. Blue top injectors from the Speed density motors are 24# hr. The 24# hr injectors were used on all but a few of the Federal emissions 49 state vehicles from 88-97 w/ Speed density Fuel injection. in 96/97 the California trucks came with MAF 460's with EEC V's and 19# hr injetcors in stock form that engine is about all they can support, Headers etc and the system starts running too lean. The 24# hr is enough to support around 325 HP the 19# are barely enough to support a stock motor. 24#-30#s are more efficient in a mild to medium modified 460 30# with any type of extreme mods.

According to Kenne Bell the stock Bosch injectors are more efficient, suffering from less drip than aftermarket injectors of that size.

How much performance do you want? There are alot of tricks to the 460, i converted mine from speed density to mustang MAF then did heads and headers compression increases larger valves, porting, it all depens on how much you want to spend and what result you want.

Hope this helps
Dusty


Why Buy new when you can build and tailor it cheaper?
F-350 4x4 ext cab Short Bed Green Monster, it is now Sporting a 300HP 715lb/ft Dyno rated 5.9L 12v Cummins diesel w/ NV4500 5spd and custom NP205 ford T-case w/ rear spicer 1410 yoke, Converted to Sterling 10.5 gears w/3.73 gears using the 41 spline pinion and 1410 U-Joints, Power-Lok equipt Dana 60 front, 33's on 16x8" Outlaw II's. (Used to have)205000 miles, Mass air 460 w/ performance heads and a E40d to 5spd conversion and Doug Thorleys. Old EFI 460 @10 MPG to the 12 V @ 23.2 MPG @ 75 MPH and loving it.
My other toy is a '69 CJ-5 354 Hemi 4 spd 4.88's 32x12.50 MThompsons w/ power-lok 44 rear.

 

On the 96-97 California MAF EEC-V engines with the 19# injectors, what would be required to swap them out for the 24# units? Reprogramming the computer? Aftermarket chip with custom program required, or something from Ford? Or would the computer learn and compensate automatically, finding the mixture was too rich? I'd guess they fit in the same holes OK...

 

Hmmm...I just double checked the injectors on my ride and they're the blue top ones...FYI, '96 460, the original owner was from California, it's got the Cal 3" in and 3" out catalytic and no air pump...Looks like Cal emissions package all the way. I'm going to be putting headers on the beast and your comments got me nervous, like, "Oh, no, I've got to spend even more $$ on injectors" !

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 07-Mar-02 AT 02:09 AM (EST)]
To recaliberate MAF you just have to get the MAF meter recaliberated to the larger injectors/ lower voltage, more fuel setting. Are you sure that motor doesnt have the pump? the metal hoses coming over your passenger side valve covers go down to the pump below the Alternator.

Sorry didnt mean to scare you i just was trying to get the facts out and try and stop anybody from spending money or making a mis judgement based on bad info.

Dusty



Why Buy new when you can build and tailor it cheaper?
F-350 4x4 ext cab Short Bed Green Monster, it is now Sporting a 300HP 715lb/ft Dyno rated 5.9L 12v Cummins diesel w/ NV4500 5spd and custom NP205 ford T-case w/ rear spicer 1410 yoke, Converted to Sterling 10.5 gears w/3.73 gears using the 41 spline pinion and 1410 U-Joints, Power-Lok equipt Dana 60 front, 33's on 16x8" Outlaw II's. (Used to have)205000 miles, Mass air 460 w/ performance heads and a E40d to 5spd conversion and Doug Thorleys. Old EFI 460 @10 MPG to the 12 V @ 23.2 MPG @ 75 MPH and loving it.
My other toy is a '69 CJ-5 354 Hemi 4 spd 4.88's 32x12.50 MThompsons w/ power-lok 44 rear.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 11-Mar-02 AT 07:43 PM (EST)]ddestruel

What all did it take to convert to mass air? Did you just plug in a Mustang processor to your exsiting harness? If not what harness did you use? What mods have you done to the motor? Are you still running the stock intake and twin injector setup? Also will the EFI intake off a 88-97 fit early 460/429?

Sorry for all the questions
I plan to use the EFI off a 88-97 on my Torino w/ a 466, I also want to use the Mustang processor.

 

This is what i ussually post about my mods for a EFI 460.

EFI 460 performance is a dangerous area and spendy very few have ventured past the basics so the questions exists how far do you wish to go?

Doug Thorley Tri Y's are a reasonible set of headers make a huge difference, an open element filter charger cone shaped w/o box K&N makes a difference too (--- the flat filter w/ 460 doesnt make enough of a difference for the cost), of course exaust (no Cat makes a little more flow, your better off sticking with a single 3" then spliting after the O2 since the O2 on the 460 can cop an attitude sometimes) Cut the cones out of the Hpipe in the intake duct work, the spot where the idler tube plugs in. An MSD ignition box 6A, there is a cam Comp Cam Part #34-220-4 @.50 206 206 Lift .467 .467 Lobe Cen 112*, that works within your Speed density FI computer vacume parameters. Bumped the Initial timing up, had to run premium, this does the same thing as a chip for the most part(with the 460's Chips are not worth the money unless you really tailor them my .02). Also You can replace the Timing chain (spring for a true roller)bringing the motor's valve timing up to top dead center w/ a 1970 429/460 timing chain.

Performance engine mods, i ported my heads installed larger valves 2.19I 1.76E(i think 1.76 i can't remember now, they are the CJ valves out of motorsport) and roller rockers, good power difference better flow, higher compression pistons can be installed also with the mass air, and i had planned larger injectors too.

It was an 8.8:1 motor stock, with the milling of the heads she tested about 9.3:1. The biggest difference to that motr was the head work. Well worth the money and if i had rebuilt the motor i would have stuck some 10:1 EFI pistons in it and 30# injectors.
Overall I thought of that 245HP motor as puting down maybe 325 HP it definately didnt feel like 375HP.


I used the motorsport 302 overlay harness and computer, got a mass air meter caliberated to 24# hr injectors and that was it. the only glitch i had was the overlay harness sometimes did not make a good connection to the O2 sensor and the emissions equiptment sensors would throw trouble codes. Solution: I took the bulb out of my dash. LOL My engine has injector to each chamber and i did stick with the factory intake and twin butterfly intake system.

I dont mind the questions i would rather let people know what i have struggled through so they can keep improving past my mods.


Good Luck
Dusty




Why Buy new when you can build and tailor it cheaper?
F-350 4x4 ext cab Short Bed Green Monster, it is now Sporting a 300HP 715lb/ft Dyno rated 5.9L 12v Cummins diesel w/ NV4500 5spd and custom NP205 ford T-case w/ rear spicer 1410 yoke, Converted to Sterling 10.5 gears w/3.73 gears using the 41 spline pinion and 1410 U-Joints, Power-Lok equipt Dana 60 front, 33's on 16x8" Outlaw II's. (Used to have)205000 miles, Mass air 460 w/ performance heads and a E40d to 5spd conversion and Doug Thorleys. Old EFI 460 @10 MPG to the 12 V @ 23.2 MPG @ 75 MPH and loving it.
My other toy is a '69 CJ-5 354 Hemi 4 spd 4.88's 32x12.50 MThompsons w/ power-lok 44 rear.

 

I just found out from the Ford mechanic that I have a mass air 460 in my '96 f-250 he told me it was very rare. is that true? also I am not sure what upgrades have been done to my truck before I got it, it appears to have a cat back exhaust system and a shift kit in the tranny. I would love to be able to do some things to even make it more but i am not sure where to start. I am on limited finances so i would like to do a little at a time. any sugestions? btw it is lifted and has 35" tires on it now.


thanks
Scott

 

My '96 F-250 460 has mass air, too. The original owner purchased it in California, so it obviously has a Cal emissions package. It also has no air pump or exhaust manifold air injection that many others seem to have. There's only an idler wheel bolted to the engine instead of the expected air pump. The 3" input to the catalytic has a three-sided input flange where it attaches to the Y pipe from the engine, this seems different, too. There are two O2 sensors, one in the left pipe coming from the driver's side exhaust manifold and another screwed into the 3" output nipple of the catalytic. I don't know if that is different from the 49 state 460s or not.

My guess, and this in ONLY a guess is that the California 460s went to MAF some time before the rest of the country, so 'rare' is a relative term depending on where you're located.

I'd be curious if your MAF 460 has air injection or not. I bet it doesn't.

 

I am in Oregon so there are probably quite a few around here, but the ford shop said they hadn't seen one, and yes they also said it was only the California models that had it.