Won't Start!
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Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
Won't Start!
Well, ole' Blue kinda let me down at work yesterday.
It was -5 degrees F, but still.
Now, before I go out and work on this (it's cold as hell) I want to be sure I'm running down the right track.
I had noticed the truck this winter didn't seem to crank quite as fast, hard to turn over as if the engine was more difficult to turn over - battery itself is near new, and I keep it on the charger overnight in the wintertime, and I keep truck garaged. Plus, read further - it ain't the battery itself anyway.
Yesterday it turned over only slightly. I keep one of those portable jump-start batteries/air-compressors with me - that didn't help. A co-worker tried a jump start with his rig - nothing. Just a nice "click".
So, if I can rule out bad/weak electrical connections (doubtful, I even run the negative battery cable directly to the starter frame) ;
is a failure mode for starters just to get weak like this?
I'm just thinkin' - maybe the starter itself is frozen w/ water/slush/salt whatnot? My plan is, since it would start in colder (but not this cold) weather take a propane torch out and heat up the starter good, and get 'er home.
This is a rebuilt starter maybe 2 or 3 years old if that helps.
It was -5 degrees F, but still.
Now, before I go out and work on this (it's cold as hell) I want to be sure I'm running down the right track.
I had noticed the truck this winter didn't seem to crank quite as fast, hard to turn over as if the engine was more difficult to turn over - battery itself is near new, and I keep it on the charger overnight in the wintertime, and I keep truck garaged. Plus, read further - it ain't the battery itself anyway.
Yesterday it turned over only slightly. I keep one of those portable jump-start batteries/air-compressors with me - that didn't help. A co-worker tried a jump start with his rig - nothing. Just a nice "click".
So, if I can rule out bad/weak electrical connections (doubtful, I even run the negative battery cable directly to the starter frame) ;
is a failure mode for starters just to get weak like this?
I'm just thinkin' - maybe the starter itself is frozen w/ water/slush/salt whatnot? My plan is, since it would start in colder (but not this cold) weather take a propane torch out and heat up the starter good, and get 'er home.
This is a rebuilt starter maybe 2 or 3 years old if that helps.
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
From: Sabin, Mn
check your battery terminals. I hadthe smae problem and when i tried to jump it. nothing. so i wiggled the battery terminals and poof. three turns, she fired. so i i am gonna replace my cables. dont know if this helps ya. but thats what i did when a jump wouldnt work for me.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
Well I got 'er started. I checked connections and they seemed good, so I used my handy propane brazing torch for about 5 minutes on the starter itself. It turned over slow but enough to start.
Now I gotta find a new starter somewhere, quick. If I would have ordered one earlier today it would have been here tomorrow. Nobody seems to have one in stock. The part number I have is C2SZ-11002-A; anybody have a different/better cross?
Now I gotta find a new starter somewhere, quick. If I would have ordered one earlier today it would have been here tomorrow. Nobody seems to have one in stock. The part number I have is C2SZ-11002-A; anybody have a different/better cross?
Tuned
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 265
Likes: 5
From: Massachusetts
Starters can definately grow old and tired. Windings can corrode..maybe a few break. Not sure for sure, but through the years I've had ones that only did the job when it was moderate temp. Some will get worse when they get too hot (like when headers are mounted too close).
Up my way, NAPA is pretty good about being able to get you a starter.
One last thought -- it being cold out and all -- what weight oil are you running?
Up my way, NAPA is pretty good about being able to get you a starter.
One last thought -- it being cold out and all -- what weight oil are you running?
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Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
I'm running 10W30, just changed it in fact.
How about a lot of motor condensation - I use my truck as a daily driver, and it doesn't get warmed up - motor could be basically frozen, lol. But heating the starter did work (I'm so smart, I scare me, ha ha) Yep - NAPA was the one who said they could have one by tomorrow, but I balked at ordering one, cuz at that point I wasn't entirely certain I needed a new one. I'll have to check, but this one is only a couple years old - and it already crapped out on me, sheesh.
How about a lot of motor condensation - I use my truck as a daily driver, and it doesn't get warmed up - motor could be basically frozen, lol. But heating the starter did work (I'm so smart, I scare me, ha ha) Yep - NAPA was the one who said they could have one by tomorrow, but I balked at ordering one, cuz at that point I wasn't entirely certain I needed a new one. I'll have to check, but this one is only a couple years old - and it already crapped out on me, sheesh.
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 998
Likes: 2
From: Benton, AR
Had one ford that seemed to go through starters more often than it should have. Might see if there is a guy in town that rebuilds starters. We have a guy that does alternators and such. He goes through and replaces everything that needs done. He is generaly cheaper than getting a whole new unit. Not sure but one of these guys could probably hop it up a tad to help on those cold starts. These guys are getting harder to find now but check around and you might find one.
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Tuned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 317
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From: Sabin, Mn
ya know, i did do a thread asking bout the high torque starters for the y-block. the high torque might be a better bet for us guys who live in the northern states that have to deal with freezing cold temps. I noticed that my starter give a lil fight even when its warm out for the first start in the morning. heres the website for that high torque starter:http://www.autoelec.com/html/ford_y_...uction_st.html
Last edited by 64fordf100292; Jan 20, 2008 at 11:43 PM.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Waterloo, Iowa
Originally Posted by drof46
Might see if there is a guy in town that rebuilds starters. We have a guy that does alternators and such. These guys are getting harder to find now but check around and you might find one.
One thing, I cored the original starter the last time, (I think! wait a sec, time to check "the pile") was this a mistake? In other words are all starters basically the same? The innards that is? What is really done on a starter 'rebuild'?
edit: hey thanks 64Ford, for the high-torque starter link. 160 smackaroos - not bad, I might consider that depending. Anyway I look at it, I gotta crawl under and change a starter out sometime soon. At least I gotta garage. I may just bring the torch to work for a while, heh.
Last edited by Tedster9; Jan 21, 2008 at 07:20 AM.
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 998
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From: Benton, AR
One thing, I cored the original starter the last time, (I think! wait a sec, time to check "the pile") was this a mistake? In other words are all starters basically the same? The innards that is? What is really done on a starter 'rebuild'?
Those questions are beyond my expertise. They always talk about bushings and other stuff when I get something rebuilt. I'm sure a phone call to that shop could be a wealth of information since they actually know what their talking about, lol. Could help you decide between purchasing a new one or rebuilding a current one. If its a reputable shop they should give you a worst case scenario price also.
later
Those questions are beyond my expertise. They always talk about bushings and other stuff when I get something rebuilt. I'm sure a phone call to that shop could be a wealth of information since they actually know what their talking about, lol. Could help you decide between purchasing a new one or rebuilding a current one. If its a reputable shop they should give you a worst case scenario price also.
later
Logistics Pro
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,785
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From: Mddl A MexCans
I'd go have it remanufactured and. The crap coming off the rebuilt Autoprone, Flaken and what not is pure crap. The guys at your local generator shop can redo it and give it some umph. If the cold temps are sustained where you are maybe consider a block warmer to help take some of the load off the starter and wear off the engine.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
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From: Waterloo, Iowa
Originally Posted by discochris
You may well have already thought of this, but could it be the solenoid? I've had at least one, if not more, go out on every Ford I've ever owned. A cheap part, and an easy fix.
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 88,826
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From: Simi Valley, CA
Originally Posted by Tedster9
Hm, greatidea, and I know just the place.... Old school shop, filled to the brim with motors all over the place, and would keep $$$ local.
One thing, I cored the original starter the last time, (I think! wait a sec, time to check "the pile") was this a mistake? In other words are all starters basically the same? The innards that is? What is really done on a starter 'rebuild'?
One thing, I cored the original starter the last time, (I think! wait a sec, time to check "the pile") was this a mistake? In other words are all starters basically the same? The innards that is? What is really done on a starter 'rebuild'?
Rebuilts: The starters are taken apart, hot tanked, starter is re-assembled with the new parts listed above, and into a box it goes.
VERY rarely is a new armature, or field coil installed...usually the rebuilders have extra used parts on hand....just in case.
A lot of the el cheapo rebuilt starters use parts that are made in China = crap.
Last edited by NumberDummy; Jan 24, 2008 at 04:16 AM.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 289
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From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by Tedster9
Yeah, I thought of that - but a solenoid is just a go/no go kind of part as far as failure goes?? I sure hope it's not the solenoid, or I will have spent 80 bucks fur nuttin', plus spending an hour or two under the truck. I have a new solenoid too, in my toolbox.
I had a solenoid stick about 2 months ago and had to rip the battery cable out of it's terminal lug to stop cranking - even with key-in-hand!