This is not meant to start a war, I'm just honestly curious as to how often anybody finds the "codes" useful. as opposed to other information, I have noted on FTE that people often request them when responding to a problem.

I'm not anti tech. I worked in electronics and computers until I retired in 2006, and I still try to keep up with stuff. However, I have my doubts about the effectiveness of the codes for the following reasons

- the generic codes are targeted at emissions problems
- understanding any codes, but especially the generic ones, calls for an
understanding of the specific tests that can set it.
- the factory ones are potentially more useful, but deciphering them calls for
access to somewhat re$tricted information. ) I will say that Ford seems to
offer more access, in general, to all of this info than GM or mopar)
- the fact that self tests are generally difficult because you have to assume that something is providing good information -- often without any real basis for doing so

I wonder if having one of the monitors that grab various data from an OBDii PCM might be generally more useful. ( The ones that will give you info from some of the sensors such as the ECT). These seem to be relatively cheap.

Of course, the professional level scanners do provide a lot more info ( fuel trim data etc. ), but they are $$pendy. Not many of us would use one enough to justify having it.

I'm also curious as to how many FTE folks solve most of their problems with various mechanical tests, scopes, meters and the like. Or, with 'pattern failures' -- knowing that 87 Rangers are prone to squished freemises, etc.

Just trying to stimulate a little discussion. I don NOT mean to be critical of anything that anyone says or does!

ford2go

 

You are correct, codes are just that, codes. You have to be able to understand the operation of the systems to know what can cause a particular code. Some code translations leave a lot to be desired, and vary from one translation to another.

Case in point: 04 Chevy 1500. Engine light on. Autozone reads the code says O2 sensor, customer purchases sensor. He askes me to change the sensor, and I ask which one as the vehicle has 4. Back to Autozone, front sensor drivers side. I change the sensor and tell him that probably isn't his problem that the sensor is responding to another symptom futher up the line. He drives for a day, no engine light, then it comes back on. I tell him to take it to the dealer for a scan. Problem was leaking intake manifold gaskets, a common problem with the Chevy.

No codes to indicate this problem.

Scanners are the better way to go, but they are expensive, and not in the budget for the average tinkerer. Most dealerships in this area will scan the computer for 80 to 100 bucks. Well worth it in my estimation especially for difficult problems.

I have been looking for a reliable reader, but haven't made as choice as yet. jd

 

You have to be able to use your head. The first thing that I always check is, is the sensor bad that it's giving a bad #, or is there something going wrong that the sensor is detecting.

Sometimes you can use your head to find out. Like when the thermostat on my brothers car went, the code said "coolant temp below norm" you can feel the rad hoses and say "Yea there not hot, and you don't get much heat out of the vents". Safe guess is the thermostat.

Other times you have to use tests like they have in a service manual to test sensors or selenoids, like on my PSD it said "exhaust pressure control valve ......." I had to break out the ohm meter and check the ohms of the selinoid. It checked bad, put a new one in, problem gone.

But you have to be able to figure out where the sonsor is what it looks like and how it works, or the want and ablity to learn about the system. Most car people can get it done but if you don't have the general knowlege of a modern engine it's basicly useless. If it tells you that there is a misfire in cylender #3 you have to know what a misfire is and the common causes, otherwise all you know is that there is a missfire and something needs to be fixed.

A code reader is no smarter than the person using it.

I use AutoEnginuety on an old laptop, I realy did not think that I could justify it at the time but had some cash so I went for it. It has been well worth the money, and got me some respect from the father-in-law to boot when I could tell him his EGR was most likley out on his mini-van. Then as per normal he said "eh emmisions BS, it can stay out".

 

Codes are a good starting point, but sometimes they can cause more confusion then they are worth. My favorite was a car that had a misfire, and codes for a lean condition and misfire. I watched the tech first replace the fuel injectors, then pressure regulator, then do intake gaskets, when I finally went over and moved a plug wire shorting on the block. Problem solved.
My wife's Jeep is the only vehicle here right now that is able to throw codes, the rest are all carbed without even electronic ignition.

 

Codes are extremely usefully. Especially combined with multiple codes.

Case in point, if you type in "code ####" you can often find a topic where someone has been stepped through a test procedure and found a solution on FTE.

Suppose you had a F-150 with a misfire and a whole slew of codes

Search for

"+code +33 +43 +78" and see all the topcis that pull up related to having all three together.

If someone has a BII/Ranger/TFI and has a whole range of wild codes, it is almost certain the TFI module is nuked.

 

I almost always find the codes to be useful to the point that without them, I don't even bother reading threads regarding CEL/SES issues since without them, there is really little to nothing that can be done. I compare this situation to farting into a hurricane.

With the fault codes AND an understanding of how the system works, I or any decent technical person, can understand why the test failed and can come up with a reasonable diagnostic or repair routine. Additionally, the factory service manuals rely on this fault data to guide the tech through the process of diagnosis and repair.

FWIW, back-issues of Ford's service DVDs seem to have reappeared on ebay. Grab em while you can..... Around $10 per disk which usually covers around two model years.

A decent laptop-based system costs less than $150, depending on years covered and manufacturers supported. Personally, I have Alex Peper's stuff which works well enough.

FTE's SEARCH feature requires search strings of at least 4 characters.....


Steve

 

There's a mixed bag, like most anything else. You need to use your head - there are no codes that say "Replace part xxx". Some are pretty vague, but some can be real helpful. Unfortunately in any computer system like these, a lot of the problems are in the sensors themselves.

One recent situation where the codes were *very* helpful: Car idling a little rough, CE light comes on, code was" misfire on cyl # 1". I swapped the COPs on #1 and #2, reset the computer. A day later - CE light, "misfire on cyl #2". Replace the COP now on #2, problem solved. Solving *that* problem without the computer and codes could have been a bear...

 

From what I read, I take it that there's no way for the car to feed the codes to the user. Having dealt with Chrysler, they had a gimmick where they could get the car to morse out the error code. Does anyone know if that's possible on a Ford vehicle?

Taking van to dealership tomorrow. Just curious on avoiding possible "code reader" purchase.

 

What year Ford? It seems that most OBD-1 ('95 and earlier) have a means of jumpering a couple of terminals and the codes will flash out on the check engine light (or similar). Most OBD-2 ('96 and later) require a scanner/code reader of some kind.

 

Unfortunately, I have a '97... Thanks for the verification!