6.9L build options
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Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,900
Likes: 3
From: Campbell River, B.C.
6.9L build options
Recent events have forced me to consider the possibility overhauling my 6.9.
I am aiming to build for torque and MPG if at all possible, so I don't think I will prefer to loose any CR, but I am wondering how much boost I can run without reaching the limit of head studs. Also, Is it worth getting a larger turbo to get more boost below 1600 RPM? (with my gearing, 1600 puts me around 70MPH)
Hypermax has a line of internal parts for the 6.9 that they claim are designed specifically for a turbocharged 6.9L engine, is this just hype, or are these parts worth considering? And what brand of gaskets and/or parts ( rings bearings, ect) would the rest of you recomend?
I am thinking of having the heads overhauled, but is it worth reboring the cylinders, and getting new pistons?
For piston rings, I have heard that there are gapless rings available, my guess here is that this could gain some compression and reduce some potential blowby, are gapless rings worth using?
If and of you have some other ideas, I'd love to hear them, as this is probably the only time I will ever overhaul this engine. thanks
I am aiming to build for torque and MPG if at all possible, so I don't think I will prefer to loose any CR, but I am wondering how much boost I can run without reaching the limit of head studs. Also, Is it worth getting a larger turbo to get more boost below 1600 RPM? (with my gearing, 1600 puts me around 70MPH)
Hypermax has a line of internal parts for the 6.9 that they claim are designed specifically for a turbocharged 6.9L engine, is this just hype, or are these parts worth considering? And what brand of gaskets and/or parts ( rings bearings, ect) would the rest of you recomend?
I am thinking of having the heads overhauled, but is it worth reboring the cylinders, and getting new pistons?
For piston rings, I have heard that there are gapless rings available, my guess here is that this could gain some compression and reduce some potential blowby, are gapless rings worth using?
If and of you have some other ideas, I'd love to hear them, as this is probably the only time I will ever overhaul this engine. thanks
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,724
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From: Clarksburg WV
Does your truck have one of the internally wastegated ATS turbos on it?
I found some stuff online (and measurements I took pretty much confirm it) that says the IDI factory turbo, and I assume the wastegated ones that came with many of ATS's turbo kits, are some sort of T3/T04B hybrid and they have a Stage III turbine wheel.
If that IS the case (and I unfortunately can't check because I don't have any extra Stage III turbine housings laying around), you could easily go to a smaller turbine housing (factory is .85, a .63 might work well with your gearing), BUT you would run into problems finding the correct 5 bolt pattern on the turbine housing for the exhaust elbow to bolt up.
Now, if you have a NON wastegated turbo, you'd have to find out what kind of turbo you actually have on the truck (probably a T4 of some sort) to know what your options are, but I have seen .68 A/R T4 turbine housings.
This would be the fastest, cheapest way to get more boost quicker.
I found some stuff online (and measurements I took pretty much confirm it) that says the IDI factory turbo, and I assume the wastegated ones that came with many of ATS's turbo kits, are some sort of T3/T04B hybrid and they have a Stage III turbine wheel.
If that IS the case (and I unfortunately can't check because I don't have any extra Stage III turbine housings laying around), you could easily go to a smaller turbine housing (factory is .85, a .63 might work well with your gearing), BUT you would run into problems finding the correct 5 bolt pattern on the turbine housing for the exhaust elbow to bolt up.
Now, if you have a NON wastegated turbo, you'd have to find out what kind of turbo you actually have on the truck (probably a T4 of some sort) to know what your options are, but I have seen .68 A/R T4 turbine housings.
This would be the fastest, cheapest way to get more boost quicker.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,900
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From: Campbell River, B.C.
The ATS 088 is a second generation non wastegated turbo. All the info I have found so far indicates that its a garrett T04B, and yes there are a few compressor options to choose from, the turbine housing is integral to the turbo plumbing, so I don't really want to mess with that. Soposedly these turbos are good for up to 450Hp, depending on trim ontions.
But as soon As I am able to cross refference the compressor specks, I will look into replacing the compressor/compressor housing, the compressor wheel has a wobble (and nicks) anyway. Do you have any of those links handy?
But I'd really like to get some opinions on building up the engine itself.
But as soon As I am able to cross refference the compressor specks, I will look into replacing the compressor/compressor housing, the compressor wheel has a wobble (and nicks) anyway. Do you have any of those links handy?
But I'd really like to get some opinions on building up the engine itself.
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,724
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From: Clarksburg WV
Links to what?
Changing compressor wheels for faster spoolup usually doesn't work all that well, because generally you have to change the wheel AND the housing and you usually have to sacrifice airflow for faster spool. I'm not even sure what would be the best option for that.
Changing compressor wheels for faster spoolup usually doesn't work all that well, because generally you have to change the wheel AND the housing and you usually have to sacrifice airflow for faster spool. I'm not even sure what would be the best option for that.
Last edited by ghunt; Nov 24, 2007 at 01:11 PM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,285
Likes: 16
From: Nutter Fort, WV
With stock compression ratio ARP head studs will let you run about 20 PSI safely.
I used Sealed Power parts ( pistons, rings, bearings, lifters, cam) for my overhaul.
All my gaskets were Fel Pro.
I also used 7.3 rockers, they are stronger.
I talked with several people about gapless rings, the general consensus was they weren't worth it, even from some people that install them as an option.
Diesel Auto Services is one of the companies I taked to, I was impressed with most of what they had to say.
Bore, my opinion on boring the block was to go with the minumum possible bore increase that gave me fresh cylinder walls to start with.
Pistons are available in .020, .030 and .040 oversized.
I used Sealed Power parts ( pistons, rings, bearings, lifters, cam) for my overhaul.
All my gaskets were Fel Pro.
I also used 7.3 rockers, they are stronger.
I talked with several people about gapless rings, the general consensus was they weren't worth it, even from some people that install them as an option.
Diesel Auto Services is one of the companies I taked to, I was impressed with most of what they had to say.
Bore, my opinion on boring the block was to go with the minumum possible bore increase that gave me fresh cylinder walls to start with.
Pistons are available in .020, .030 and .040 oversized.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,900
Likes: 3
From: Campbell River, B.C.
Originally Posted by ghunt
Links to what?
Changing compressor wheels for faster spoolup usually doesn't work all that well, because generally you have to change the wheel AND the housing and you usually have to sacrifice airflow for faster spool. I'm not even sure what would be the best option for that.
Changing compressor wheels for faster spoolup usually doesn't work all that well, because generally you have to change the wheel AND the housing and you usually have to sacrifice airflow for faster spool. I'm not even sure what would be the best option for that.
Its either that, or just upgrade to a wastegated turbo, but so far, upgrading my current setup seems like it could get me the results I need and at a lower cost.
Dave Sponaugle, looking over some of your older posts, you mention sealed power parts often, but what is better about them as opposed to what came stock in the 6.9?
My thought with gapless rings was to keep blowby as low as possible, but I guess hypereutectic pistons could help as well.
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
From: Klamath Falls OR
Hey Dave, Try DPS. They do IDI stuff as well. Here is a link to them!~
http://www.dps-performance.com/
http://www.dps-performance.com/
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Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,285
Likes: 16
From: Nutter Fort, WV
I have talked with Ken at DPS several times and I am currently running a set of his stage 1 injectors.
I had intentions of buying one of his motors back when I was having engine trouble, but the way it worked out it the time factor before the snow flew was against me.
So I had the machine work done locally and did the removal, assembly and install myself.
As to why I used Sealed Power parts, the quality is good, the machine shop I used dealt with a jobber that carried their parts and they gave me a very good price on everything I needed in a very timely fashion.
I use my truck to much, time was an issue.
Me leaving the house without my truck is about like me leaving the house without my pants.
Neither happens very often.
I had intentions of buying one of his motors back when I was having engine trouble, but the way it worked out it the time factor before the snow flew was against me.
So I had the machine work done locally and did the removal, assembly and install myself.
As to why I used Sealed Power parts, the quality is good, the machine shop I used dealt with a jobber that carried their parts and they gave me a very good price on everything I needed in a very timely fashion.
I use my truck to much, time was an issue.
Me leaving the house without my truck is about like me leaving the house without my pants.
Neither happens very often.
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Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,900
Likes: 3
From: Campbell River, B.C.
I make a living with my truck too, but lucky for me, I have a similar truck ready to fill in if any of our rigs is knocked out of commision for more than a few weeks, looks like my f150 is going back on the road (i don't pull NEARLY as much wieght as you do lol)
As it stands now, I just don't have the time to tear into the engine just yet, so I may just fog it for now.
One last question, how ugly is it to pull the engine?
As it stands now, I just don't have the time to tear into the engine just yet, so I may just fog it for now.
One last question, how ugly is it to pull the engine?
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,285
Likes: 16
From: Nutter Fort, WV
Well I have a bit of practice after the Reviva fiasco of four engine swaps in under two years.
I can swap one in about 12 hours with a little help.
Given the weight of the engine, if you are using a portable engine hoist it is much easier and safer to remove the radiator shell.
That way you don't have to raise 1200 pounds so high in the air.
I did an install out the top once with a very heavy duty engine hoist, I will never do it again.
If it goes out the top, it will be attached to a chain hoist which is attached to something very stable.
The main reason for this is the engine has to turn about 45 degrees, front to the right to get the water pump and harmonic balancer by the radiator shell.
That gets a bit scarey with the oil pan five feet off the ground to go in my 4x4.
I can swap one in about 12 hours with a little help.
Given the weight of the engine, if you are using a portable engine hoist it is much easier and safer to remove the radiator shell.
That way you don't have to raise 1200 pounds so high in the air.
I did an install out the top once with a very heavy duty engine hoist, I will never do it again.
If it goes out the top, it will be attached to a chain hoist which is attached to something very stable.
The main reason for this is the engine has to turn about 45 degrees, front to the right to get the water pump and harmonic balancer by the radiator shell.
That gets a bit scarey with the oil pan five feet off the ground to go in my 4x4.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,900
Likes: 3
From: Campbell River, B.C.
I've got a 1.5 ton chain hoist hanging from a beam in our shop and a 12F high celling, so I think I'll opt to leave the rad support in if possible (I don't really want to disturb the AC system if I can help it) 12 hours.....nasty.....one step at a time I guess, I'm not looking forward to this.
