Need help with brazing panels
Thread Starter
|
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,447
Likes: 1
From: Littleton, CO
Need help with brazing panels
I am in the process of repairing some rusted body panels and attemping to learn the ancient secrets of brazing. I have the torch and bottles all set up and been burning a few items along the way. Is there any guidance or videos that you folks have used that were/was particularly helpfull. Right now I am using a #2 tip, running gas at 3lbs and Oxy at 10. I am trying to find out where the sweet spot flame resides. The test/practice metal has succombed to heat to the point of melting, at which point I realized it was too hot 
I would really like to do this myself, before farming it out to my kids buddy who took welding at a trade school and has toys to play with..... Any guidance is appreciated.
Thanks! --Mike
I would really like to do this myself, before farming it out to my kids buddy who took welding at a trade school and has toys to play with..... Any guidance is appreciated.Thanks! --Mike
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 531
Likes: 1
From: New Mexico
Just keep in mind that brazing refers to heat that will melt and not about fusion of metals like welding. Its a bonding process and the bronze rod flows at a pretty cool flame. I think you'll want a soft sounding flame rather than the more hissing one for welding temperature. Less Oxy than 10 psi is fine on the brazing process. Use plenty of flux and really move the torch with its wider flame around to spread the heat. And, you'll need a very small but ever present gap between the two pieces so the bronze can flow in and do its molecular adhesion thing.
Choose wisely what you braze or lead. Once done, it can't be welded. The molecules are saturated with the wrong stuff to weld.
Choose wisely what you braze or lead. Once done, it can't be welded. The molecules are saturated with the wrong stuff to weld.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 246
From: Piney Woods of East Texas
Heating panels up for brazing will cause the panels to warp. Are you confusing brazing with soldering/leading, which is a lot lower heat. The color you looking for while brazing is the red color which indicates ~1600F. Are you using flux on rods or flux from a jar? In any case watch the flux, it will turn to a clear liquid color when you get close. If you having trouble seeing the color use a temp stick. As for torch, If you working thin panels you want a very quiet slightly oxyodizing (oxygen rich) torch. When you get it down you can test your skill by welding/brazing AL, it really tests your temp control.
Depending on panel size a larger tip may help.
Good luck.
Depending on panel size a larger tip may help.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
|
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,447
Likes: 1
From: Littleton, CO
Thanks guys. I am using flux from a can, dipping the rod in and going. I will play in the garage this evening trying to soften the flame. I am basically putting in a lower corner fender panel, about 6"x4" big. I have a nice cool wet rag to keep the surrounding area in check and have been practicing on a scrap piece of panel.
I love the learing process... --Mike
I love the learing process... --Mike
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 39
You would be better off not using brazing rod, use a reg steel rod in stead,, You will get a weld without the dis similar metals problems or making the surrounding metal brittle,,It has been my experience ,with braze, that in a short time you will see the weld through the body work....
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 3
From: NE Texas
Brazing body panels has many problems associated with it. A previous poster pointed out one of the serious ones and that is warping. Another is that brazing sheet metal together with brass will be a short term repair. The dissimilar metals will corrode and in a few years you will see the repair need to be redone.
The very best way to fuse body panels is with a MIG welder and even then you don't just take off and run a bead. You leap frog around the panel with small welds giving plenty of time to cool. You also can make a heat sink around the repair with silly putty to keep the heat contained.
If a torch is the ONLY way you have of fusing the panels, don't use brass. Use baling wire, or if in a city setting where you have no baling wire, use coat hanger wire THAT HAS HAD ALL OF THE PAINT REMOVED. Again, don't just take off and run a bead, this will guarantee warping. Spot around the panel so as to limit heat.
Good luck,
Doc
The very best way to fuse body panels is with a MIG welder and even then you don't just take off and run a bead. You leap frog around the panel with small welds giving plenty of time to cool. You also can make a heat sink around the repair with silly putty to keep the heat contained.
If a torch is the ONLY way you have of fusing the panels, don't use brass. Use baling wire, or if in a city setting where you have no baling wire, use coat hanger wire THAT HAS HAD ALL OF THE PAINT REMOVED. Again, don't just take off and run a bead, this will guarantee warping. Spot around the panel so as to limit heat.
Good luck,
Doc
Thread Starter
|
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,447
Likes: 1
From: Littleton, CO
I'm sort of an old guy, so I have actually seen the coat-hanger method in action... I do in fact also have one of those two-voltage wire feed with flux MIGs in the garage, but I was not pleased with the outcome of it's use on the test panels. It looks like I will succomb to my lack of experience and tools and have my son's buddy just take care of it for me. What he can do in 15 minutes has already consumed a few hours of my time 
--Mike
--Mike
Trending Topics
More Turbo
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 629
Likes: 1
From: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Don't give up Mike, you will never master the art of welding that way. practice, practice, practice, practice and more practice will do the job.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026
Brett Foote
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time
Joe Kucinski
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,232
Likes: 3
From: NE Texas
Yes indeed, practice is key. It sort of reminds me of an old family joke. Our Mom told us; "Don't go near that river until you learn how to swim!" Even as kids we saw that as something impossible.
I have never tried welding body panels with flux core. It would be a real pain, since you would have to clean the weld before you could weld over it. What makes MIGing body panels practical is the fact that due to the shielding gas, you can weld over weld. Since you have to leap frog around with many small welds, you would drive yourself crazy cleaning the flux mess so that you could let welds kiss each other.
Can you get a gas setup for your wire welder? The wire welder with gas will make this a VERY easy job.
Good luck,
I have never tried welding body panels with flux core. It would be a real pain, since you would have to clean the weld before you could weld over it. What makes MIGing body panels practical is the fact that due to the shielding gas, you can weld over weld. Since you have to leap frog around with many small welds, you would drive yourself crazy cleaning the flux mess so that you could let welds kiss each other.
Can you get a gas setup for your wire welder? The wire welder with gas will make this a VERY easy job.
Good luck,
Thread Starter
|
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,447
Likes: 1
From: Littleton, CO
I will keep at it, but of course it will be for the experience as opposed to getting the job done. My father has a MIG with the gas attachment that we are about to convert over (from flux wire) so that way we will have both bases covered. He is an old school stick welder and the body panels are just a little thinner than he is used to working with.
--Mike
--Mike
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 531
Likes: 1
From: New Mexico