solid lifter cams in 351m/400??
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Delaware
Originally Posted by hollenjoe
I still dont get why people say a 400 cant be built for high rpm, I has to be possible...
How can you get that much air? If you use 351C-4V heads and build an intake like a 351C that revs to 8000 RPM, you are on your way. One problem is you need a dual quad Tunnel Ram manifold. You will have to adapt one from a 351C.
The exhaust has the same problem. You need large tube headers to handle that amount of exhaust gas.
A 400 is not quite as bad, but you can see what I mean.
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From: western montana
I think you take a wheezer stroker crank like that crazy ozzie and then get the parts to take.... what did he say.... 40 pounds off the rotating assembly? some god awful amount...that way your not making GOBS of destructive rotating energy... then get the heads, chi intake, custom headers - theres cams a plenty and go cat go.
My goal one day is to make a turbo- (not blown) 400 that will take 8k and run 7's consistently...then turn it loose on the word ...one victim at a time....to include 460 gurus. I might even do it with a 400c as well...and with a clevor 400 and and and.
air supply is fixable as it is a freaking cleveland and if any ford base can make flow it's a cleveland...the real issue IMHO is getting rid of the destructive rotating mass... it's energy that is spenging it's time doing naughty things that rob power and longevity.
I need some really dumb rich guy to back me...i show him/her how to throw away mass quantities of money in a don trump kind of way....
My goal one day is to make a turbo- (not blown) 400 that will take 8k and run 7's consistently...then turn it loose on the word ...one victim at a time....to include 460 gurus. I might even do it with a 400c as well...and with a clevor 400 and and and.
air supply is fixable as it is a freaking cleveland and if any ford base can make flow it's a cleveland...the real issue IMHO is getting rid of the destructive rotating mass... it's energy that is spenging it's time doing naughty things that rob power and longevity.
I need some really dumb rich guy to back me...i show him/her how to throw away mass quantities of money in a don trump kind of way....
Last edited by roger dowty; Oct 25, 2007 at 12:34 AM.
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with an engine built as such:
400 ford
headers
600cfm edelbrock
performer 400 intake
crane roller rocker conversion w/ guideplates
tim's 9.5:1 k/b hyperutec
engine blueprinted
properly balanced
2v heads
cam bearings restricted
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=32-237-4
would this cam with matching springs not be suitable?? or even this cam
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=32-238-4
not only would the mechanical lifters not need as much oil to function, but the rpm capability would be increased...
i agree with you roger...G forces kill an engine
400 ford
headers
600cfm edelbrock
performer 400 intake
crane roller rocker conversion w/ guideplates
tim's 9.5:1 k/b hyperutec
engine blueprinted
properly balanced
2v heads
cam bearings restricted
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=32-237-4
would this cam with matching springs not be suitable?? or even this cam
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=32-238-4
not only would the mechanical lifters not need as much oil to function, but the rpm capability would be increased...
i agree with you roger...G forces kill an engine
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Posting Guru
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Im planning to go roller to but why aint there double profile cams (int and ext diff duration)? 400 likes them, aint a single profile cam worse?
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Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: NE Texas
Crane makes split profile roller cams.
roger is all over it here. The issue is the large amount of rotating mass. More accurately as he puts it, "destructive rotating mass."
I have no doubt that, given the funds, a 400 could be made into a fire breather, but WHY? There are many other engines that are more suited to the task without having to spend so much money and do so much custom work. The 400 is well suited to be built to pull your boat, your stock trailer or a set of big, heavy tires.
Why not use the 400 for what it is best suited? You would no more use a Ferrari to haul gravel than you would use a dump truck to go road racing. Match the equipment to the task at hand.
roger is all over it here. The issue is the large amount of rotating mass. More accurately as he puts it, "destructive rotating mass."
I have no doubt that, given the funds, a 400 could be made into a fire breather, but WHY? There are many other engines that are more suited to the task without having to spend so much money and do so much custom work. The 400 is well suited to be built to pull your boat, your stock trailer or a set of big, heavy tires.
Why not use the 400 for what it is best suited? You would no more use a Ferrari to haul gravel than you would use a dump truck to go road racing. Match the equipment to the task at hand.
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hi doc,paul and nick here, to be fair to you, we did not tell the whole story. we are with you on rpm. nick has a msd rev limiter where we intend to hold that 400 well below 6000, more like 5400 max we are thinking maybe even 5000. the solid lifter cam was more about oiling issues. we paid our machine guy to do tim meyers mods. ie oil restrictors. not only did he agree he advised us to take it one step further and run solids so we do not have to feed the lifter galleys. aka more oil to our crank and less oil up stairs. this is what we are asking about. we just did not make it clear. our fault. any body you to doc. any thoughts. later us.
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roger and doc, me again, listen this is not a how to from me. this is for pure fun, dreamboat annie stuff. the thruth is as i see both of get it. for what? and to what end and dont forget about the DUMB rich guy. MY checkbook aint that big. but for pure FUN. my thoughts on a 8000 400 MAYBE.
deep pan
windage tray
high side b clearences
forged crank porkchop counterweights
10" alum flywheel
alum rods
lighest strongest slugs you could find
SOLID roller lifters
strongest lightest pushrods around
proper clearenced beehive springs
titanium retainers
valves rockers 3/8 screw in studs jomar girdle dont want that bill$$$$$$$ out of room
deep pan
windage tray
high side b clearences
forged crank porkchop counterweights
10" alum flywheel
alum rods
lighest strongest slugs you could find
SOLID roller lifters
strongest lightest pushrods around
proper clearenced beehive springs
titanium retainers
valves rockers 3/8 screw in studs jomar girdle dont want that bill$$$$$$$ out of room
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,270
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From: Delaware
the solid lifter cam was more about oiling issues. we paid our machine guy to do tim meyers mods. ie oil restrictors. not only did he agree he advised us to take it one step further and run solids so we do not have to feed the lifter galleys.
The oiling problems are related to the cam bearings, not the lifters or lifter galleries. I don't think that you will get much oiling advantage with a solid lifter cam. Tim's oiling mod should be sufficient, because it limits the oil to the cam bearings etc.
The oiling problems are related to the cam bearings, not the lifters or lifter galleries. I don't think that you will get much oiling advantage with a solid lifter cam. Tim's oiling mod should be sufficient, because it limits the oil to the cam bearings etc.
Elder User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 526
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From: Sin City, USA
Originally Posted by roger dowty
I think you take a wheezer stroker crank like that crazy ozzie and then get the parts to take.... what did he say.... 40 pounds off the rotating assembly? some god awful amount...that way your not making GOBS of destructive rotating energy... then get the heads, chi intake, custom headers - theres cams a plenty and go cat go.
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danlee paul i here you sir we are ALWAYS open to op,s on this unusual oil system that these midlands present. as i have always said, we are here to learn, and listen to those who have gone before us. NOT to teach anybody this is NOT our first motor. it IS our first MIDLAND, anything more, you have our ear. not a smart a-- i am serious. this forumn is full of men who have been there done that. talk to us we think we get it.
thanks us.
thanks us.
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From: Sin City, USA
Originally Posted by MBDiagMan
Why not use the 400 for what it is best suited? You would no more use a Ferrari to haul gravel than you would use a dump truck to go road racing. Match the equipment to the task at hand.
The 5.4mod motor is used only in trucks in the US but in Australia the 5.4 is used in the 4 door Falcon GT. It is electronically rev limited to around 6K but with its 4.17" stroke (longer than a 400's) it makes 302Kw (403HP) in the 2008 Cobra and 290Kw (390HP) in the GT.
The BOSS 290/302 5.4 motors (the Aussie name) are good for more than 6K so should Ford AU just forget using that truck motor for anything other than pulling jet skis and bass boats? A motor is a motor and although some traits make one motor easier to build for certain applications than another motor it still doesn't mean you can't build that motor for what ever application you choose.
My 408 has no problems hitting 6500 rpm and it has no lack of torque for it's 3400lbs application. It also helps that I use a 5spd manual instead of a power robbing slushbox. A 3.27:1 first gear is a lot nicer than a 2.48:1 coupled to a torque converter.....it also provides an extra 25% of torque multiplication.