More Truth About Ethanol
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2004
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Currently an ethanol producer gets a tax credit of $.51 per gallon. Our cost of production is calculated at approximately $1.65 per gallon (with the subsidy). Todays market price is $2.22. If you remove the subsidy the cost of production would be $2.16. So a 40 million gallon a year plant would net 2.4 million dollars a year. That may sound like a lot, but when you consider the plant cost 40 million dollars to build, that is not the kind of return that will attract business. Nobody is going to build a plant and accept a 6% return on their investment. So like I said before if not for the federal subsidy, no ethanol plants would have been built.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Davenport, IA
I assume the cost of production is including the cost of corn. So as the price of corn increases, so to the cost of production. Add in the decrease in mpg compared to gas, and the benefits disappear. The saving grace of ethanol as compared to gas is the source is renewable as compared to oil (or coal.) Correction, the saving grace is that the US would control the production. Oil resources are not depleted at all, just restricted by OPEC and US law. There are years of untapped oil resources under the US. Oil and coal are simply politically incorrect. The far east nearly guarantees the price of oil will continue to rise sharply.
So Aladin, what part of the building of that plant are you involved with? Are you contracted to build, or are you involved with the company itself? Only curious as to how deeply you are involved with it. Either way you are more aware than I am.
What is your opinion of other vegetation for a source instead of corn? Also, would corn be better used as a fuel some other way than as ethanol for cars? Like power plants, or would it best be forgotten as a fuel? Consider this for the future also, not only now.
So Aladin, what part of the building of that plant are you involved with? Are you contracted to build, or are you involved with the company itself? Only curious as to how deeply you are involved with it. Either way you are more aware than I am.
What is your opinion of other vegetation for a source instead of corn? Also, would corn be better used as a fuel some other way than as ethanol for cars? Like power plants, or would it best be forgotten as a fuel? Consider this for the future also, not only now.
Senior User
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I work for the company that owns the plant. Although, I don't believe that corn is a renewable energy source (it takes a huge amount of fossil fuel to convert the corn), it is just a job for me. I will build whatever they want. I think the same can be said for other energy uses of corn. It just takes too much energy to grow and process it to make an efficient source of energy.
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Lynnwood, WA
Originally Posted by aladin sane
It just takes too much energy to grow and process it to make an efficient source of energy.
Since you're in the industry, what do you think about Coskata's semi-permeable membrane that supposed to get around the distillation requirement?
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Davenport, IA
Originally Posted by aurgathor
Since you're in the industry, what do you think about Coskata's semi-permeable membrane that supposed to get around the distillation requirement?
Anyway, Coskata's process could use it's own thread. Sounds to good to be true from what I've read.
Me thinks I argue just to argue now. I'll now stop posting and go back to reading all the interesting info. Cheers!
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Lynnwood, WA
I have a feeling you don't know what you're talking about. The Coskata process aims to replace distillation (which is where most of the energy goes) with an alternate approach, that presumably need a lot less energy. It may sound too good to be true to you, but similar methods can be used to desalinate water, or separate nitrogen from oxygen.
As for a new thread, the question I asked is ethanol related, and if not for people trying to argue for the sake of argument, it could've been as short as two posts. Not any more.
As for a new thread, the question I asked is ethanol related, and if not for people trying to argue for the sake of argument, it could've been as short as two posts. Not any more.
Last edited by aurgathor; Feb 16, 2008 at 12:08 PM.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2004
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I have a little trouble with that process as well. The "fermentation" of a gas seems a little fishey to me. If you are going to go to all the trouble to gasifey corn, then integrated gasification combined cycle is the real answer. Of course this produces electricity, not a liquid motor fuel.
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"Correction, the saving grace is that the US would control the production."
That and the huge benefit to US farmers as food prices rise. It would be sweet to leverage food the way OPEC does oil.
"Oil resources are not depleted at all, just restricted by OPEC and US law. "
That doesn't mean we should use ours first.
"There are years of untapped oil resources under the US. Oil and coal are simply politically incorrect. " They are valuable in the long term, Why rush?
"The far east nearly guarantees the price of oil will continue to rise sharply."
Yep.
That and the huge benefit to US farmers as food prices rise. It would be sweet to leverage food the way OPEC does oil.
"Oil resources are not depleted at all, just restricted by OPEC and US law. "
That doesn't mean we should use ours first.
"There are years of untapped oil resources under the US. Oil and coal are simply politically incorrect. " They are valuable in the long term, Why rush?
"The far east nearly guarantees the price of oil will continue to rise sharply."
Yep.
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