Stall No Start
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Freshman User
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From: On a farm
Stall No Start
I have a 99 7.3 that stalled and will not start. I pulled the codes with an edge evolution, i know it is not the best reader it is all I have, it pulls codes for ipr sensor, cps sensor, and icp sensor. All have been replaced within 100 miles. The pickup will start after I let it sit overnight and drive 2 miles then shut down. please help.
thanks
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Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
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Originally Posted by powerfarmer
I have a 99 7.3 that stalled and will not start. I pulled the codes with an edge evolution, i know it is not the best reader it is all I have, it pulls codes for ipr sensor, cps sensor, and icp sensor. All have been replaced within 100 miles. The pickup will start after I let it sit overnight and drive 2 miles then shut down. please help.
thanks
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thanks
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Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
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Here is some more on the subject from swamps:
Though it could be the IPR, I don't think it's likely in this case.
I'm betting that you have some injector issues...specifically surrounding the poppet valve on one (or more) injectors.
The poppet valve is the one single area of a PSD injector that just flat out wears. It's similar to a valve in a cylinder head that beats itself into it's valveseat.
As the poppet valve opens and closes (with each injection), it meters the high pressure oil flow in/out of the inj.
With each opening and closing, the seat is being hammered by the valve...causing it (over millions of cycles) to seat lower and lower into the injector...until clearance under the armature is lost.
Once the armature bottoms out on the inj body, the valve cannot "reach" the seat to seal high pressure oil from leaking out of the injector.
The reason that the truck runs when cold, and dies (and won't restart until it has cooled significantly) is that cold oil is thick...and can bridge the gap created by a poor valve & seat seal.
once the oil is warm, it thins out, and can now leak around that valve creating a tremendous amount of "spillage" that the oil pump can not now keep up with...once the amount of the leak exceeds the capacity of the pump...pressure falls, and the injectors simply cannot fire without (approx) 450psi of high pressure oil...so the truck dies.
you can physically measure this yourself.
Pull both valvecovers, and start the truck...it won't be horribly messy, just a little oil splash around the valvetrain.
As the truck (oil) heats up and dies, have someone crank on the starter attempting to restart the truck.
You should be able to look at each injector, and find one that it puking oil out from around the (just above) the hold down clamp.
You may need to mop up any oil that settles down in the low spot of the head to help you see which injector is actually puking...
once you've isolated which inj(s) are puking, pull the solenoid (4 # torx 15 screws), remove the harness to that inj, remove the little aluminum spacer plate...
what you are now looking at is the armature plate...the little ~1"x1" square plate, with the goofy screw (poppet screw) going through it's center.
On a brand new injector, there should typically be .003"-.004" (three to four thousanths of an inch) gap under that armature (measured with a feeler gauge)...
My bet is that your injectors have enough poppet seat wear that they have less than .0015 (less than one and one half thou of an inch) gap...practically zero.
if you can't get a .0015" feeler under the armature plate, then that injector is a problem, and it is a good indication that the others within that set need some machining to bring them back into spec. so that they will operate correctly.
Though it could be the IPR, I don't think it's likely in this case.
I'm betting that you have some injector issues...specifically surrounding the poppet valve on one (or more) injectors.
The poppet valve is the one single area of a PSD injector that just flat out wears. It's similar to a valve in a cylinder head that beats itself into it's valveseat.
As the poppet valve opens and closes (with each injection), it meters the high pressure oil flow in/out of the inj.
With each opening and closing, the seat is being hammered by the valve...causing it (over millions of cycles) to seat lower and lower into the injector...until clearance under the armature is lost.
Once the armature bottoms out on the inj body, the valve cannot "reach" the seat to seal high pressure oil from leaking out of the injector.
The reason that the truck runs when cold, and dies (and won't restart until it has cooled significantly) is that cold oil is thick...and can bridge the gap created by a poor valve & seat seal.
once the oil is warm, it thins out, and can now leak around that valve creating a tremendous amount of "spillage" that the oil pump can not now keep up with...once the amount of the leak exceeds the capacity of the pump...pressure falls, and the injectors simply cannot fire without (approx) 450psi of high pressure oil...so the truck dies.
you can physically measure this yourself.
Pull both valvecovers, and start the truck...it won't be horribly messy, just a little oil splash around the valvetrain.
As the truck (oil) heats up and dies, have someone crank on the starter attempting to restart the truck.
You should be able to look at each injector, and find one that it puking oil out from around the (just above) the hold down clamp.
You may need to mop up any oil that settles down in the low spot of the head to help you see which injector is actually puking...
once you've isolated which inj(s) are puking, pull the solenoid (4 # torx 15 screws), remove the harness to that inj, remove the little aluminum spacer plate...
what you are now looking at is the armature plate...the little ~1"x1" square plate, with the goofy screw (poppet screw) going through it's center.
On a brand new injector, there should typically be .003"-.004" (three to four thousanths of an inch) gap under that armature (measured with a feeler gauge)...
My bet is that your injectors have enough poppet seat wear that they have less than .0015 (less than one and one half thou of an inch) gap...practically zero.
if you can't get a .0015" feeler under the armature plate, then that injector is a problem, and it is a good indication that the others within that set need some machining to bring them back into spec. so that they will operate correctly.
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Freshman User
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From: On a farm
I have just replaced six of the eight injectors within 5000 miles and all seem to be working all puking oil out the oils spicket and there is no missing. I was thinking it is a computer problem, but maybe i am wrong. I will check all my injectors again.
Thanks
Thanks
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 39
Originally Posted by Kwikkordead
Action4478 have you seen that sort of wear produce a miss at very slight throttle settings, then clear up as soon as more throttle is applied?
I have a 99 7.3 that stalled and will not start. I pulled the codes with an edge evolution, i know it is not the best reader it is all I have, it pulls codes for ipr sensor, cps sensor, and icp sensor. All have been replaced within 100 miles. The pickup will start after I let it sit overnight and drive 2 miles then shut down. please help.
If It weren't for the temp part I may have expected it to have something to do with the Harnesses ....
What are your thoughts?
Last edited by Action4478; Oct 11, 2007 at 04:33 PM.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
What kind of lights do you have coming on in your dash when you have this problem? How long do you have to let the truck sit before it starts again? When the truck dies is it rough or just like someone turned the key off? When you say 2 miles down the road is that just a figure of speech or is it literally 2 miles? My truck won't reach full operating temp in 2 miles unless it is warmed up first.
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to figure out which way to lean on this one.
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to figure out which way to lean on this one.
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Thread Starter
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Freshman User
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: On a farm
When the truck dies i have no lights on the dash it is a six speed so it just slows down with no throttle response like someone turns off the key. The last time I drove it it stalled literally two miles down the road, but I let it warmup before the drive, then it restarted and died three miles later. I can usually wait 10-15 minutes and start it again, but the last time I had to pull it home. I let it sit for 8-10 hours before I had time to pull it to the shop. I tried to pull start it with no luck and this morning I noticed my batteries are low and they are die-hard truck batteries less than six months old. I am leaning toward a short in the harness or a computer problem but I do not know if it is most likely the PCM or the IDM.
Thanks for all the help
Thanks for all the help
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Something is cutting the power, it sounds like.
I would ignore all the error codes that you are getting with the scanner and pursue whatever it takes to find and repair whatever is killing the power. It could be as simple as a loose battery cable to as complicated as a failing GEM module. (the fuse panel, basically)
I really don't think you have any other issues than that. Get the power supply consistant and you will have a reliable truck again.
I would ignore all the error codes that you are getting with the scanner and pursue whatever it takes to find and repair whatever is killing the power. It could be as simple as a loose battery cable to as complicated as a failing GEM module. (the fuse panel, basically)
I really don't think you have any other issues than that. Get the power supply consistant and you will have a reliable truck again.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
I agree with kwik. Since there are many possibilities have you tried just letting the truck idle for an extended period of time to see if it will die at idle? Maybe rev the motor a while while parked. If you can't get it to stall at park then I'd start looking for a short or loose harness.
I had an issue with my main engine wiring harness chaffing. The glow plug light would not go off on mine when the truck refused to start. There's also a harness on some trucks that rubs the top of the front driver shock, or the harness inside the steering column. Also if you have a chip make sure the connection is good there.
Of course check the simple things too like corrosion on the battery cables, plugged fuel or air filters. I'd hate to think your truck is just becoming barn sour.
I had an issue with my main engine wiring harness chaffing. The glow plug light would not go off on mine when the truck refused to start. There's also a harness on some trucks that rubs the top of the front driver shock, or the harness inside the steering column. Also if you have a chip make sure the connection is good there.
Of course check the simple things too like corrosion on the battery cables, plugged fuel or air filters. I'd hate to think your truck is just becoming barn sour.
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Freshman User
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: On a farm
Thanks for all the help I will go through the truck this weekend and see if i can find any chaffed wires or corrosion. I know the battery cables are fine, but I have never checked the connections on the idm, pcm and gem but I will. The last time I tried to pull start the ABS light and speedometer would not work I do not know if this is normal when pulling the truck.
Thank you for all the help
Thank you for all the help
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 321
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From: Albuquerque, New Mexico
I know that my truck died and had a hard start all do to the ipr. The nut worked its way off, then the spacer worked its way off. truck ran great going down hill but would die on bumps or up hill climbs. it wouldent hurt to look into the engine valley and see if there are a couple parts in there flopping around.
Thread Starter
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Freshman User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 39
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From: On a farm
Today I did get the truck started I only had time to drive it a few feet. I noticed that the speedometer does not work and it always has in the past and also the abs light would not go off. The last time my abs light stayed on a bearing holder in my rear end went out and took out the whole rear end i hope there is another explanation.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Speedo and ABS light are tied to the same sensor on the rear axle. The sensor is something like $25.00 and I would replace it as a matter of routine with those symptoms.
But that will not fix your stalling problem.
Hmmmmm.
Gotta be a loose connection somewhere. Power. Ground. Something. Just a matter of finding it.
Sometimes easier said than done.
But that will not fix your stalling problem.
Hmmmmm.
Gotta be a loose connection somewhere. Power. Ground. Something. Just a matter of finding it.
Sometimes easier said than done.