Pulled the heads off my truck today to find the true displacement, and condition of my block, In my previous posts I measured a 4 inch stroke, I thought I had a 428, but I bought some calipers and measured it today.
I have a '68 390 4v, it's bored .010 over, So I am planning a buildup now. thanx for all the previous posts. guess my previous stroke measurements were operator error!

Heres my plan:
1)rebuilt stock C8AE-H heads.
2)edelbrock performer intake.
3)Stock oversize .020 pistons
4)total seal piston rings
5)Holley 600 vacuum secondary carb
6)crane cam: dur.234/238,lift..554/563, LSA=112
7)Hooker small tube headers, dual exhaust w/crossover
8)high vol. oil pump
9)pertronix ign.
10)basic, bottom, top end rebuild
11)2000 R.P.M stall converter mated to a c-6 tranny.
12)whole setup will be going into a ranchero, or possibly a '69 Mustang Mach 1, I am trying to talk a guy out of his Mach 1 , w/ no engine or trans.

Any ideas how this engine combo/buildup sounds? this is my first engine build, I am trying to match parts the best I can for power and reliability. I ran a setup as close to this as possible on my desktop dyno, It says 432 hp@5,000, and 428 ft-lbs@4,350, does this sound realistic?
for now this is just all in planning stages, I thought I would see what the pros thought, anything youwould change as far as the engine goes?

 

I'm no "pro", but that looks like a pretty good plan to me for a reasonable motor. What do you intend to use the car for? Daily driving? Some strip use? If you really want to race it, I'd consider a larger carb and a better flowing intake manifold (Ebock Performer RPM and Weiand are commonly recommended), along with port matching of the heads and perhaps installation of larger CJ exhaust valves. Larger headers may also help. Then again, your headers options won't be clear until you know what vehicle it's going into.

If you're not going to race it at all, I'd probably stick with the Performer manifold and 600 cfm carb. I'd go with tri-y headers instead of the Hookers, though. Check out Sanderson's and Stan's.

Finally, I'd think you might as well go .030 over instead of .020. I've never heard of a FE block that wouldn't take .030 over with no problems, and it's a muh more "standard" size than .020 over. Pistons and rings in .030 over are stock items and may be cheaper than .020 over equivalents. You also gain an additional couple of cubic inches (you'd have 393 at .020, and 395 at .030).

There are plenty of threads on cam choices, so I'll leave that item to the experts.

karlsd a/k/a "ksd"
69 F100 Explorer 360/C6

 

HarleyFord, you are going to do the normal oil mods for the FE series ford aren't you ?....... You know you need them ! DF

 

thanx for the help!
I am hoping to use whatever car I settle on to as a daily driver that is fun. So the 600 carb is for gas mileage,plus the fact that I am at 8,500 feet in elevation, when I bought the truck it had a 900 cfm carb on it for a manual trans, got about 5 miles to the gallon, and very poor performance, stock engine though.
so I put the holley 600 on it, I am not real fond of Holley's, it had a cracked float bowl right out of the box, sent it back and they do stand behind their products well, I had a new carb sent in about a week. mileage went to 10 to the gallon, and performance went up a lot. I run one because of simple design, like em because they are easy to work on. the performer R.P.M is a better manifold though huh?, think it is daily driver friendly?
anyway, given these facts of elevation and useage, thats how I came to the conclusion a 600 would be good. I will check out other header options, I was under the impression only hooker made them for 390's, and small tube was a decision made for more low end torque for practicality. I am one of those people that when I am done with this vehicle, I want it to be the last one I own, real life permitting.I am having a hard time giving up the old truck, I became attatched to it. so I want to be able to rebuild again if need be, So I think ill just bore to .020, and hopefully get one more good rebuild out of it down the road.
I do plan on doing the oiling mods, hopefully I wont screw it up!, I'll read up on it.

thats the reason I posted, I want all the experiences from other people with these motors
if any one else has any thing they would change I would appreciate hearing it.
I am just going to Buy one Item a month untill I have whats needed to do the job.
thanx for the posts!
Justin

 

For your intended use, I think you're dead-on about the carb size. Anything over 600-650 cfm will just cause mileage and driveability problems. You also should probably stick with the Performer manifold over the Performer RPM. I use the standard Performer (Ebock #2105), which is great for street use, towing, etc. The RPM has larger runners and will make more high-end power, but you'll pay for it with worse throttle response and low-end performance -- that's not what you want.

Small tube headers also make sense. Check out Stan's and Sanderson, though, as the consensus here is that they make the best FE headers. Stan's makes a great tri-Y set (model 222Y, I think) that would be perfect for your application.

Going .030 over shouldn't be a problem, even if you want to leave room for future rebuilds. FE blocks routinely take .060 over with no problems, and supposedly some (especially the later ones) are capable of .080 over (that 406 cid from a stock 390) without sleeving.

karlsd a/k/a "ksd"
69 F100 Explorer 360/C6

 

Thanx for the input Karlsd, that makes sense with the manifolds, I think the R.P.M would be a bit much too, for my useage that is,probably is great for racing though!
Stan's and Sandersons, Never heard of em, is there a particular website for them? Definately sounds worthy of checking out.
I had no idea you could bore an FE that far, WOW!
I'll look into that too, I am sure your right about the parts being cheaper for .030 over, if it still gives me some leeway for another rebuild than thats great!
I am starting to think that my cam selection may be a bit aggressive for stock heads and smaller carb after reading the cam posts.
trying to find the correct components to work well and in harmoney with eachother is tough, but I am glad for all the help here.
thanx again
Justin

 

Generally I like the setup, but I don't like the cam and head choices. That cam is too agressive for the other parts. You'll probably be better with a smaller cam in the 210~224 @ 50 and .510~.535 lift and 1500~5500 rpm range.

Using the stock heads is fine, get hard exh seats and remove the humps in the roof of the exhaust and blend the bowls a bit. I'm not goint to suggest larger valves because of the other parts. If you are going with larger valves, I'd get the RPM intake and do a full port and polish of the heads.

Going with the RPM and full port and polish with larger valves still provides good mid-range torque. These engines make 427# of torque at about 2800rpm in stock form and that's even with larger valves, RPM intake, full port work, you'll still have impressive torque.

Your list plus smaller cam and some head porting and port matching would be a great choice. Don't worry about FE blocks, ANY 360/390 can go 40~60 with no problem and there are a ton of FE blocks for dirt cheap.

 

thanx for the input!
yeah, after looking at that very large lift and duration I thought the cam might be a bit too much for stock heads too.
I want to try to stick with the stock heads for reliability and cost effectiveness. I have unfortunately heard more bad than good about Eboch heads,and they cost a ton. and the port work, etc. I can do, luckily, I worked at a cyl. head rebuilding facility for a shorttime in Colorado, we did a bit of port matching, flowbenching etc, I only worked there for a month ,I found out that the owner doubled the shop as a drug ring.
so I do plan on doing that. A lot of mixed emotions on cams, I do not know the specs. on the stock cam, but I want a very noticeable power gain that is in a useable rpm range. I noticed the one I picked had a lot of top end, but not a whole lot down low. I know you can't gain a lot of mid/high range without sacrificing SOME low range, so I am kind of looking for a cam that will supply saticefactory amounts of both.
those cam specs you gave are incredible on my desktop dyno, on there I have over 10 saved runs with crane cams, ebock cams and isky cams, all over the counter grinds, but I just entered the specs you gave me and it outperformed em all hp peaks at 420hp at 5500 rpm, tq peaks at 459 at 4000 rpm. 300 hp at 3500 rpm, and 422 ft lbs at 3500, a very well rounded cam!!!
where did you get those specs if you don't mind?, is it an available grind or custom?
I would love to know!
thanx,
Justin

 

Don't have a link for Sanderson handy, but a search should turn it up. Stan's is on the web at www.stans-headers.com

What bench dyno program are you using?

karlsd a/k/a "ksd"
69 F100 Explorer 360/C6

 

If you want the best compromise between low end torque and high end power go with a roller cam. with a roller cam you will get more lift and the valves will be nearly fully open for longer without increasing the duration as much. Long duration is what hurts idle quality, throttle response, and low end torque.

One other thing. That high volume oil pump? Unless you plan on running loose bearing tolerances a high volume oil pump will just rob power and gas mileage without increasing engine life.

 

Karlsd, the dyno program I am using is the original MR.Gasket desktop dyno, it seems to work pretty well, not as thorough as I would like, but still fun, I like it.

I have not really looked into roller cams, I hear they are very expensive. I am sure they work well, Harley engines use roller cams, and they make good power, I am sure the benifits are great, but is the benefit/cost ratio worth it?
I am completely unfamiliar with automotive roller applications.
Thanx,
Justin

 

also,on the oil pump, not worth it?
I guess I just picked it because it sounds good, but if it's not worth it in the long run I will just buy a stock pump, whatever the outcome I want an engine that will last a long time, the high volume won't increase engine life at all?
thanx
Justin

 

The cam specs is from Crower. I got the Power Beast #16903 292H
LC 112 214/224 @ 50 521/547 lift $75 w/lube

from the book...
"Delivers impressive mid-range and top-end power. Healthy sound. rpm: 1200 to 3800, redline 5200+"

Someone else here is running a simular Crower cam but it has a higher rpm range and that might be a better choice. Mine is really setup for agressive offroad torque but it really depends on gear choice too.

I'm going to side on the hv/hp oil pump with the oiling mods. While it is true that FE's have gone 200,000 miles on stock factory builds and the pump may use more power, I just like the fact that it's there. The cost is small and with the proper mods to the rest of the system I think it's just cheap insurance.

the porting work is really straight forward, just look closely at the ports and feel the roof of the exhaust and the bowl area and you'll find plenty of things to improve on.

 

Thanx karljay, Like I said, that cam worked very well on my desktop dyno, If you have run it, does it perform as well as my dyno says?
sounds good.
Thats what I was thinking on the oil pump, when the motor ages and bearing tolerances widen, the pump may start to earn it's keep. longevity is what I want.
as far as porting, I plan on just getting rid of casting flash, and any other obvious restrictions, anything should help I'm sure.
thanx,
Justin

 

Justin, count one more vote for the high volume pump, that and the oil mods are real cheap insurance against future problems. While your doing your heads, C8AE Hs right ?, you are going to install hardened seats under the exhaust aren't you ? I would if it were mine, I don't think leaded gas is available anywhere anymore. If you can't reuse your exhaust valves and have to buy new ones, consider stepping up to the 1.65 428CJ valve. The stock 1.55s are just too small, but the cost is hard to justify unless you are buying new valves anyway. One of my engines has the stock intakes and bigger exhaust, with serious porting in the ex port. Makes a really nice truck head. DF