I had some similar problems a couple winters ago. My edge would not turn off when I took the key out, and the battery would discharge all night. I also hd problems when it was really cold out and when I went to start the truck the edge would not see full battery voltage and would cause the truck to get all confused and not start.
See if you have the latest firmware/software updates.
ERIC

 

Interesting... Yep, he has the newest software/firmware. He had to update it before he could even load it as it was missing some file. Tech support walked him through it. It just did the same thing you said about 5 minutes ago. Fired the truck up, shut it off, looked like it was going to shut off, but didn't. Either he, or I will be calling Edge on Monday to find out WTH the deal is. The really weird part was when it was off, and then came to life like my laptop does when it's looking for updates. At least my laptop goes back to sleep when it's done!!

Thanks for making me feel "not crazy"...

 

alright it was just a thought no need to get all sensitive i've never wired or installed an edge programmer before and just assumed that you would need to get power from the fuse panel

 

Hi there,

My husband was the lead engineer for the Evolution, so if anyone knows more about this product, I'm not sure who it is!

Let me offer this... Here are the current draw specs on the Evolution/Gryphon in relation to the PCM:

PCM Only:
Key Off - .000A @ 12.7V
Key On - .450A A 12.7V
Turn Key Off - .070A @ 12.7V for 15 Seconds

PCM & Evo/Gryphon:
Key Off, Evo Off - .050A @ 12.7V
Key Off, Evo On - .260A @ 12.7V
Key On, Evo On - .660A @ 12.7V

---

PCM Only:
Key Off - .000A @ 11.7V
Key On - .470A A 11.7V
Turn Key Off - .080A @ 11.7V for 15 Seconds

PCM & Evo/Gryphon:
Key Off, Evo Off - .050A @ 11.7V
Key Off, Evo On - .290A @ 11.7V
Key On, Evo On - .690A @ 11.7V

---

PCM Only:
Key Off - .000A @ 10.5V
Key On - .500A A 10.5V
Turn Key Off - .080A @ 10.5V for 15 Seconds

PCM & Evo/Gryphon:
Key Off, Evo Off - .050A @ 10.5V
Key Off, Evo On - .310A @ 10.5V
Key On, Evo On - .740A @ 10.5V

As you can see, there is some current draw (up to 50 mA) when the unit is "asleep" and there is a bit more (about .290 mA) when awake. Most of the current draw is the LEDs, so lower LED values will cause lower current draw. In fact, LED draw accounts for up to 170 mA of draw.

So what does this mean? Well if you look at the math... the unit is using on about 290 mA (at 11.7V, full LED output) so if the unit stayed on 24 hours you'd use approximately 7 Amp/Hours of battery capacity. Automotive batteries are rated in both CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) and RC (Reserver Capacity). Reserve Capacity is the amount of time a 25 Amp load can be applied before a fully charged battery will drop to 10.5 volts. To convert to Amp/Hours, multiply minutes of RC by 25 Amps.

According to Interstate Battery, the average 24 or 34 series battery has a Reserve Capacity of about 120 minutes, which amounts to 50 Amp/Hours. Now, using these values it would take approximately 172 hours or 7.18 days of the unit being "fully on" before the battery drops to 10.5 volts. If the unit "sleeps" normally, it would take 1000 hours or 41.67 days to drop the battery to 10.5 volts.

Of course, this is assuming no other loads on the vehicle which could affect the decay rate of the battery. Other modules such as the clock/radio and keyless entry also draw small amounts of power to stay functional and will have an effect on battery output. I don't know what the draw is on these so I can't offer any useful timeframes in regards to battery decay.

I hope this helps clear up any confusion.

Take care.
Bill Cohron - Resident Evo Specialist



Blessings,
Corey
www.powerhungryperformance.com
www.prayertag.org

 

You can throw all the "numbers" you'd like, but a cabin light left on overnight will kill a battery dead enough to require a jump, and uses less amperage than the Edge. You're also showing me 3 different sets of numbers, with identical equipment listed, but with 3 different levels of draw, and ZERO change in load, or controlled conditions. It would appear to even a rudimentary layman, that you merely copied and pasted some stuff in an attempt to appear verisimilitude.

BTW, the draw from the Edge when left on, and the key off, is a helluva' lot higher than any MilliAmp number you quoted, even by your copy and paste job! Youer numbers show (albeit 3 different numbers) a draw of .500A (which is half an Amp) while MY numbers measured .80A with the key off, and the unit awake, which was the reason for his problem if you'd read above. His Edge keeps waking up all by itself, when the key is off.

Fatal Errorz
Resident Realist

 

So you started spouting off, when you've never even SEEN one?

I'm not "sensitive". I was just pointing out the problems with what you were blabbering about. No need in getting defensive, simply because your offense failed. We're not at war.

 

Just called the guy whose battery died. 3 day old battery is showing "green" in the eye again, and the truck started fine with the Edge disconnected from the OBD-II port. He's going to call Edge this morning and see if there's something that will positively shut that thing off when it sits overnight, other than unplugging it. Seriously, I saw it come to life on it's own, with the key out of the vehicle. I was thinking about getting one for the shift changes, but am a little leery until he gets his working right.

Off to work...

 

First: I don't need to use words like verisimilitude to appear knowledgeable or to lend credibility to my posts. I was one of the engineers who designed the Evolution and I don’t need to throw arbitrary numbers around just because they sound good.

Second: Don’t think for 1 second that we didn’t pay particular attention to the amount of current draw of the unit in both active and quiescent (sorry, resting) states. The numbers that were posted were taken from both development notes as well as actual values from 3 separate units directly from my test bench. The only available load during testing was the PCM and the Evo with no other considerations for possible parasitic loads that would be present in a vehicle, such as a clock, an alarm, or other vehicle modules that are active while the key is off. The purpose of the test was to outline the load of the Evo specifically, not to provide a total current draw for the vehicle.

Third: Before you open your mouth check your facts. I showed the sets of test values with a change in VOLTAGE to simulate the increased current draw as battery voltage decreased.

Fourth: Comparing Evolution current draw and dome lamp current draw is like trying to compare apples to pumpkins. A single standard #578 interior lamp (normal for a Ford dome lamp) draws approx. 0.708 amps (9w / 12.7v) which is roughly the same as the Evo AND the PCM with the key on, or roughly about 12 times the amount of current draw of the Evo when it is sleeping. Switch to a #561 lamp (popular replacement) and the current draw goes up to approx. 0.945 amps (12w / 12.7v).

With that said, I don’t dispute that there may be an issue with units randomly “turning on” which would cause increased load and my end up with a dead battery. However, historical data shows that these do tend to be isolated incidents. My general assumption is that the “brown-out” protection circuits in the Evo are causing the units to reboot when battery voltage drops to a certain point. I can certainly see, given previously stated current draw values, where this could cause a battery to drain to the point of not starting. However, if the battery is draining enough to cause the unit to reboot in the first place it is generally an indication of either an already existing problem with the battery or an additional current draw which is running the battery down in the first place. Or it could just be a problem with that unit...

In the future, don’t make the mistake of coming on here and talking [indirectly] to me like I don’t know what I’m talking about, as you would be sorely mistaken in your assessment. I have been in the automotive business for over 25 years with over 12 in electronic performance, and there isn’t much I haven’t seen before.

Take care.

Bill

 

In the future, don’t make the mistake of coming on here and talking [indirectly] to me like I don’t know what I’m talking about, as you would be sorely mistaken in your assessment. I have been in the automotive business for over 25 years with over 12 in electronic performance, and there isn’t much I haven’t seen before.

Take care.

Bill

__________________
Bill Cohron - (678) 963-9913
Calibration Professional
Edge Evolution Specialist
Occasional DJ

Good for you. I've been a mechanic for 24 years. You don't faze me. His truck was FINE before installing that Edge Evolution, and is fine with it disconnected too!! You readily admit that there are isolated cases of them coming on on their own. That was the ENTIRE purpose of me ressurecting the older post as I wanted to know if anyone else had had that problem. The answer is YES, THEY HAVE. Edge told my buddy to mail his off to them for the unit to be checked out by them.

Next time, don't make the mistake of talking indirectly to me, using your wife. You started it, and I wouldn't give a rat's @ss about listening to your advice, or your numbers of electrical draw on the Edge (which were probably taken 3 years ago) when my numbers for the draw on his truck were markedly different merely using a Snap-On Modis scanner. I was able to isolate current draw by circuit, and the Edge had the BIGGEST load of any "dormant" piece of equipment on the truck. Especially when it decided it wanted to wake up on it's own.

 

Fourth: Comparing Evolution current draw and dome lamp current draw is like trying to compare apples to pumpkins. A single standard #578 interior lamp (normal for a Ford dome lamp) draws approx. 0.708 amps (9w / 12.7v) which is roughly the same as the Evo AND the PCM with the key on, or roughly about 12 times the amount of current draw of the Evo when it is sleeping. Switch to a #561 lamp (popular replacement) and the current draw goes up to approx. 0.945 amps (12w / 12.7v).

And with the Edge waking itself up, I measured .807 current draw, which was higher than the bulb you mention above that I said would kill a battery overnight. Edge on, all by itself with no human or animal intervention on it's behalf. That was with the key in my friends pocket!!

Also, since the original numbers thrown about by your wife were from some bench testing on the units, perhaps she should have explained it as such. What year were those numbers taken? I ask because you don't do any custom tuning on the Edge anymore, they haven't updated the unit other than software since 2006,(from what I see, but I could be wrong) yet the PCM's have changed on the trucks every year since this version came out in 2004.

While a lot of people might be "scared" to discuss things like this with you, especially in a public forum, because of your instantaneous attempt to belittle or discredit, that tactic won't work with me. I've been a mechanic for 24 years, not merely in the "automotive business" which term would encompass an parts guy at Auto Zone.

P.S. I use the term "custom tuning" for the Edge as loosely as it can be used. Custom tuning something like that is nothing more than pushing some buttons to change pre-canned settings. I'll use our dyno and do the same thing when he gets it back.

 

You have issues. I don't recall addressing you at all in the salutation on my first post, I didn't quote you, and you weren't the post directly above mine, so for you to think that I was speaking to you... well, I reiterate -- you have issues. People like you always amuse me.

I refuse to get in a p-ssing match with someone who, obviously, will always try to get in the last word using misinformation.

Have a nice life. I wish you nothing but the best, and I will pray for you.

As for my husband, what he wants to post is his business. He may wish to give you the time of day and set you straight. You may, perhaps, want to do some research as to who he is and what he currently does; you may feel differently.

Blessings,
Corey
www.powerhungryperformance.com
www.prayertag.org

 

Just using the same tone he used in addressing me. Once again, you ARE addressing me directly, when I was speaking to him. (Directly this time)

As far as researching your husband goes; I couldn't care less who he is, or what he currently does. People who attempt to rest on their laurels, or by a title will get passed by shortly. Especially in the automotive field.

 

FatalErrorz,

I really don't understand why you feel the need to be hostile. All we (my wife and I) were trying to do was provide some qualified test data for people to get a better understanding of the current draw specifications of the Evolution. For some reason, you seem to have regarded this as a personal attack or something. We were not denying that there was an issue with the Evolution, we were simply trying to provide some supporting data in order to help troubleshoot the issue.

If you have some personal issue with me, then let's hear it. I'd rather you come right out and say it than try to figure out what your problem is.

With that said...

Yep... so why are you arguing about it?

I didn't. She merely reposted information I had placed on another forum. Don't shoot the messenger because you didn't like the message. If you want to discuss my findings, I am more than happy to discuss this with you (or anyone else) as well as provide test results and documentation to substantiate my findings. Also, as far as I am aware, she wasn't replying to you but to the thread in general.

Started it? Started WHAT? Trying to help? Oh please forgive me. I thought we were over that in second grade.

As for testing? Try, umm... 6 weeks ago? I will add that current draw was measured using a Power Designs Model TW347D Constant Voltage power supply, not some cheesy Radio Shack Ammeter (in case you were wondering). I grant that the Snap-On Modis is a nice piece of equipment and I am not going to argue about your readings since I don't have any idea exactly how you were "isolating" the Evolution circuit during your tests.

If you don't want to listen to my advice, then DON'T. I don't care.

What part of "I don’t dispute that there may be an issue with units randomly 'turning on' " did you not catch? There is no question that if the Evolution is "awake" it will draw enough power to drain a battery.

Again, she wasn't throwing numbers, I was. I didn't see where she needed to explain every little detail of how the tests were performed. Honestly, I neglected to mention in the original post that testing was performed on a bench PCM. As I previously stated, the tests were done roughly 6 weeks ago.

Again, check your facts. I still do custom tuning for Evo-based units which we currently private label. I also currently handle ongoing development and maintenance for ALL of the Ford versions of the Evolution for Edge. And just so we're clear, I have on my bench a PCM for each model year of 5.4L which I use for testing and development.

Scared? Who is scared? The only person who seems to be offended is you. I have never had a problem engaging in conversations, technical or otherwise, and to my best recollection nobody has ever had a problem bringing up an issue in front of me. If there's a problem, I admit it and do what I can to fix it. It's as simple as that. I do not stoop to the level of belittling ANYONE, and I don't hide behind false accusations or veiled (or even overt) attempts to discredit anyone. However, I have very little tolerance for people who provide misinformation or make judgments on false assumptions and have no problem calling someone out when he/she is incorrect.

As for experience, I have been a mechanic since I was 15 and I was an ASE Certified Master Tech for over 10 years. I have been in the Electronics Performance industry (Chips, Programmer, etc.) since 1996 and have worked for both Superchips and Edge.

As for custom tuning, I do *ACTUAL* custom tuning. I don't just adjust the setting on the "custom options" menu. I write full programs with over 100 different modifications to specifically suit the needs of a customer.

We can go on about this indefinitely and doubt it will ever go anywhere. Since this is neither productive nor pertinent to the issue at hand, I doubt I will respond any further to your attacks. People who know me know my reputation and trust my opinions. I don't need to prove anything to you or anyone else.

If you would like to continue the discussion regarding the dead battery issue, I will be more than happy to provide my expertise and experience with the Evolution to reach a resolution.

Take care and God bless.

Bill

 

He's mailing it off to Edge Products sometime today for them to look at it. Before I ever hook an electrical item into a system, I check the battery condition, starter draw, charging system, regulator, and diode/stator to ensure the system is working properly. It keeps me from getting blamed by a client if their system dies after an installation. I do everything from rebuilding an engine, to changing a tire. From troubleshooting individual circuits in an electrical system, to changing a light bulb.

I couldn't figure out WHAT killed his battery until as I was LITERALLY scratching my head, it came on without even having the key in the ignition. Disconnected the cable, and the draw went away, and the vehicle started again this morning. I still have no idea what is causing it as I don't have the unit.

He had to update the unit before he could even use it as it was missing a file for his PCM. I think his Edge came with revision 10 on it(?) I don't remember.

No hard feelings on my end; the vehicle isn't even mine. When the question was first (re)posted by me, people were chiming in saying it wasn't possible, and I must have wired it wrong, I'm using misinformation etc... That's what made me stand my ground as I know how to test, troubleshoot and repair pretty much anything. I don't have a schematic for an Edge though, and it's under warranty I assume.

Well, I've got an engine to stab. Have a good one.

 

back to front....