Ok, I have a 77 F-150, 4x4, 4sp, it has the 351M, NON-catalyst, only has an EGR valve, no catconverter,,,,, can I put an 83 460 into it? and how does that work with smogging it?

 

This is a more of a Regional question for the California chapter.

People who live there ..in the know

 

It can be done legally. Laws out here make it so the motor you are putting in has to be from a NEWER vehicle than what you are putting it in to. You will have to do the swap and get a BAR referee (read: smag ****) ok the swap for you. They give it a VERY (read: extremely **** to an annoying degree) visual inspection and then a sniffer test. Once you pass that (took me 7 tries - and it passed the sniffer on the 1st try - F--in beaurocrats) you will then get a sticker with a bar code on it and whenever you have to take it in for a smog check the tech will look at that sticker for testing notes - rather than the original emissions sticker. Plus a lot of normal smog check guys won't touch a Bar referee car - so your annual smog check will have to be with the smog ****.

You will need to keep any and ALL smog equipment that came on the donor motor ON the motor and in working order though, as you will now be held to the smog stands for the 83 motor you are putting in.

Been there - done that and NEVER again.

There is a reason pretty much every thing I buy now is '75 or older...

It kind of all depends on where you live though. Here in Southern California we are a little overpopulated so we are held to very strict standards - including yearly smog checks in many cases. If you live in a more rural area you may be lucky enough to smog the vehicle only when you go to sell it.

Hopefully that helped, but I'd need a little more info before I could narrow down what hoops you really need to jump though.

 

Well, I used to live in SoCal, Rancho Santa Margarita for 10yrs,,, Now I am up in Eastern Madera County, Coarsegold/Oakhurst
I knew it would be a ROYAL PITA, so I am not sure yet, I would like it in my 77, however it will probably end up in my 66 or 63. My 77 has the 351M so it would be easier, I guess I need to find another 351M/NP435 combo so I can use those parts for my 66.

 

Chase truck pretty much hit the nail on the head. Whereabouts on this map do you live?

If you want out of smog, register your truck, and your drivers license to a PO box in one of the counties in WHITE.

Other things not mentioned.
You cannot put a heavy duty motor into a light duty vehicle. That basically means that a 460 from a F350 will not work as-is in your F150. You need to add the emissions stuff a light duty 460 would have. A 460 was not available in a 4x4, with a stick shift, until 1983, so to keep your 4 speed, you need an emissions calibration for a 460, and a light duty vehicle, for 1983 or later. You can use a 1968 460, but you need to add all of the Junk that an 83+ would have. PM Mil1ion, he can set you up with a light duty calibration that will satisfy the smog ****'s for 1983 (and 1977 - more on that in a bit.) more than likely a light duty F250. After 1979, cats were mandatory for anything under a GVW of 8500#. The donor calibration more than likely will have a cat, BUT if your truck did not come with one from the factory, you do not need to install it. Your truck has to pass the sniffer as a truck with CATS, but without the benifit of them.

To sneak past the heavy duty motor clause, and not earn a trip to a B.A.R referee here is what I recommend, and HAVE PULLED OFF SUCSESSFULLY.

-register your stuff in one of the white counties (smog upon transfer only) Problem solved
-Install 8 lug outers on your front axle, and an 8 lug rear end.(now you are a heavy duty vehicle)
-Slap on F350 badges, and scrape any weight ratings off of your sticker on the door.
-Find and use a valve cover at the junkyard that says something to the jargon of "Light duty Emissions standards for 1977 vehicles certified for sale in California" Slap that on your 460.
-***ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS*** ask for a pre-test first, this way if your numbers are WAAAY bad, you wont get nailed as a gross polluter. Gross polluters get checked every year, and have to be tested at a test only station.
-If the tech asks you any questions, say its been that way since you bought it new in 1977, and stick to your story. If he says it won't fly, take your truck and money elsewhere.
-It is VERY important that you find a calibration, with a diagram, and match it to your engine EXACTLY. If the guy has to think about what he is looking at, he will catch you, and send you on your way with a FAIL.
-Take the vacuum diagram in that you set the motor up with. If he gives you flak, show him that. Something like below.




More to come as I think of it.

 

^^^
I dunno..be careful if you start scraping off weight rating tags...it could constitute fraud on your part and you could be cited for it or worse.

If the smog police know what theyre looking at...and you have 350 badges on a vehicle with a VIN that says its a 100- 150 etc...you could get hit there as well.

I wouldnt recommend trying to sneak anything by anyone..cause when you do... chances are youll get caught...without an explantion.

Just some things to take into account before you attempt them...if you so decide.
-Chris
PS...Im not making a comment on the above poster in any personal manner...merely warning the OP that he could get caught. I think that all the smog stuff in general is a bit over done here in CA...but thats another thread haha.

 

Or..................

Get a 1973-1975 truck and switch over your running gear. (or just the drivers door) wink,wink.... LOL!
Seriously, I live near San Francisco and the smog laws around here are pretty strict. I have jumped through the hoops before for the tree huggers. Trust me when I say to just get an exempt truck and start over if you really want to be able to have some creative freedom. I know it sounds like a lot of work but the headaches you will get from trying to maker it "legal" are way worse.

 

Amen!
Driver side door and the wink wink is the best advise I have heard. Not hard to come by, and I have seldom heard of anyone having problems doing this. Can find doors and titles for these trucks and several guys sell them for just this reason.
Bending the rules? Of course. I run a late model fuel injected engine in my latest ride, and it will pass emissions,(sniffer not visual) but is much easier to be exempt, and have the option of running anything I want, anytime I want.

 

Yep, I have debated a few different "strategies",,,, Have a friend that lives in Mariposa,,,, he has offered an address (it is in the white area, 10 miles away from me!! go figure) It really is a sweet truck, check my gallery, so I don't want to disturb that, probly just make it a 400 and stick the 460 in my 66!
Joe

 

Yeah you pretty much have to have a friend or family that lives in one of the "good" areas and will forward your registration, etc. to you, as the DMV is keen to PO boxes as registered address' and will not let it fly. You can't just get a box in a mail center type place and then have the stuff forwarded from there to your street address. You HAVE to have a street address, so a mail box place that just gives you a box number will not work.

Also - continuin on the wink wink part (I'm not endorcing or suggesting that you do this, as it is illegal) BUT you could find a pre 76 "parts donor" truck with a clear title for cheap, non-op your 77 (keep all paperwork and license plates in a safe file at home) and run the license plates and registration off the pre 76. It's even less hassle than changing a door - haha. The good thing about the old trucks is the VIN info is on the door. After 30-40 years doors have had a good chance of being hit and replaced - therefore loosing the correct VIN plate

MasterBeavis added some very good points in his post. And - that is a handy map to have.

Maybe the reason I had such a hard time at the Bar referee was that I was putting a supercharged 3.8L out of a thunderbird in my ford ranger. Smog **** failed me for all sorts of BS. Even as little as having a generic solenoid on the truck. According to him I had to have the one with the Ford logo stamped on it, not a generic - which just meant re-buying a more expensive part and going back for more BS with the referee. Not sure what that matters, but apparently it does.
As I said before though - I will NOT give the smog ***** any more of my time or $$. I just get more creative as time goes on...

 

I left out the part about BREAKING FEDERAL LAW in regards to VIN tampering ON purpose, but since it was brought up, I will address it. I know (from personal experience) that the VIN/door/lic plate swap is the easiest way to get around the smog *****. However you must realize (and I am fully aware) that there is alot of explaining to do if I ever get caught, and serious penalties. I am not sure how far the excuses of "that is how I bought the truck" and "Its an old truck, I don't care how the VIN decodes, I have better ways of wasting my time" will fly with the guy who can impound my truck for a very long and expensive time, and possibly find a way to take it away from me..

If a cop pulls you over who knows their stuff, you will get nailed before you even open your door. Those of us with 77-79's, we are dead meat with our badge locations, an fuel door type. Yes you can swap all that junk out, and make it fit, but...

Off topic note. Folks here LOVE using old jeep titles on their mid 80's jeeps. They are playing with fire, any jeeper can tell the difference between a 65 Cj5 and a 74 Cj5, and a CJ7. Plain and simple, if you get caught, expect to loose.

Nicking or painting over the GVW sticker so its illegible on the other hand, I am sure that 99% of us can sleep at night if we do that to get away with the swap. This is to get away with using a heavy duty motor in a light duty truck. If your swap looks factory, with no fancy high zoot stuff, I would not expect the smog tech to look any further than to confirm your EGR/gas cap works, and make sure you have all of the necessary smog equipment.

As far as badging is concerned, you can put Toyota Prius badges on your truck, instead of F350, nobody cares, nor has the power to do anything about it except laugh, or point and stare. If you were to haul things with your F100 like you were a F350, and a commercial CHP officer was to pull you over, then things will get expensive because you are not paying for the weight class you are towing in, or are simply overweight, and you are dangerous.

I edited my reply while typing it for clarity, and to take out some redundant thoughts. As far as the registering your junk in a smog exempt area, I had said register your truck and your license in a smog exempt county,and took it out cuz I mentioned it again later.(minus the lic. part) If you get caught with two different addresses, or different cities, you will get a ticket. Out of state truck in your name with a CA lic. is bad news as well, and is a very expensive ticket. Out of state lic. and plates are ok only for 3 months, or you get a job, or your kid goes to school here, or you dog drinks out of the toilet, essentially the way the law is written, if you work/live in Cali, you are getting Cali reg/lic. (unless you are military) With that said, out of state stuff is ok, until you start raking up tickets, or get narc'd on (there is a hotline where you can snitch on folks who are cheating)

 

I'm surprised this thread hasn't been moved to a California forum yet ?

It really doesn't a serve a purpose on this forum.

This could be a 83 engine in a 1940,1950,1960 truck as well.


Good luck with the people in power

 

Agreed with all of the above...I still dont know why it hasnt been moved either...but anyways...

I know there are lots of way to make the Smog hassle easier or even to dissapear...and like I said I wasnt making any comments on anyone cause Im sure just about all of us have considered or done something to sneak by at tmies....I only felt it prudent to add that "disclaimer" to the thread haha.

Personally....my vote would be for either replacing straight across with what came out as that would be easiest....or doing the swap on a pre smogger so you dont have any paperwork to worry about.
-Chris

 

There is a California thread?!

 

Yes, In fact ,There are 2 of them.

Northern and Southern.