DF
as you know im replacing my rod bearings in my 74. I have a simple question here. I bought a set of arp rod bolts through summit but for the life of me, i CANNOT get the old ones out of the rods. Mind you, Im doing this job with the motor still in the truck (its a 360)
question---how do i get em out? i really dont want to BEAT on the bolt with a hammer ESP if the crank is RIGHT THERE LOL. IF i cant get em out and i choose to use the existing ones with new nuts, do you put any kind of threadlocking compound on them?? this is the first time im doing this so i dont know! lastly, what is the torque on the bolts? THANKS AGAIN!
regards

Ben

 

Replacing the rod bolts requrie resizing the big end to my knowledge. In this case installing ARP bolts may be doing more harm than good. DF does this for a living so he would know best.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 16-Jun-02 AT 01:12 AM (EST)] I got $10.00 that says you spin a bearing within
5000 miles, and you can hold me to that. *Very* bad
idea to replace the rod bearings without resizing the
rods...

Just a quick story about a former customer, he brings
me an engine, dismantled, in a box, asks me to put it
together for him, no problem, I tell him, but it'll cost
you $450. He says "$450? are you nuts?" I tell him no,
I'm not nuts, but you're going to expect a warranty, So
It's going to the machine shop, where they'll polish the
crank, resize the rods, hone the block, and hot tank it,
then I'll put it together and warrenty it for a year.
He didn't want to pay that much,
I didn't need the 5 hours labor...

Steve & the Rockette
'63 F100
'68 F100
'72 Capri 2L
'73 Capri 2.6L V6
'73 MG B GT 2.6L V6(Ford)
'98 Contour SVT 2.5L V6 (Mods)
'01 ZX2 (No Mods yet)

 

_nut, and just why are you replacing the rod bearings ? Are you certain they need to be replaced ? And with the engine in the truck ? sounds like a bunch of work to me........But anyway, the guys are telling you straight. You can, but you shouldn't, replace the rod bolts without reconning the big end of the rods. When I replace rod bolts in the shop, we have a press to get the old ones out. The reason you cant just swap them is because the big end of the rod is honed round while under the stress from the bolts. Your new ARP bolts will clamp better than the factory bolts did. THis means that a big end that was round with the factory bolts might not be with ARP's. So if you really think you need the ARPs, you should take the pistons and rods out and resize the big end. But you wanted to put in fresh rings anyway, Right? But cylinder wall finish for rings is a whole 'nother thread...........DF

 

-should have added, when I put an engine together, I use plain old 30 wt engine oil on the threads, unless the bolt manufacturer recomends something else. DF

 

>But cylinder wall finish for rings is a whole
>'nother thread...........DF

*DO NOT GET ME STARTED*

The **** poor work that comes out of most
machine shops just ticks me off, leaving me
to believe that most machinists have a rectal
cranial inversion, stopping with 150 grit
honing stones is an abomination in my opinion,
I usually went to at least 400 grit...


Steve & the Rockette
'63 F100
'68 F100
'72 Capri 2L
'73 Capri 2.6L V6
'73 MG B GT 2.6L V6(Ford)
'98 Contour SVT 2.5L V6 (Mods)
'01 ZX2 (No Mods yet)

 

OK
canzus and DF listen up
when i took the sucker apart, it had a rhythmic rapping noise and i KNEW it was the rod bearings. i didnt pull the motor because A) i dont have a lift and i really dont know how to do it
B) im on a budget and C) it wasnt burning any oil. when i pulled the bearings out, they were wore right down to the copper---there was no lead (or that silvery coating left!) funny thing is, the bearings were standard inserts! So, im just trying to get by with the most for the least here. I have a set of clevite 77 standard inserts and im also going to torque in a melling HV pump. I KNOW I SHOULD PULL THE MOTOR and IF the rod bearings are down to the copper, GOD ONLY KNOWS what the mains looks like! i havent had the heart to bust a cap loose to check---i guess what i dont know wont hurt me?
this motor runs real strong except for that noise. Hell, if i had someone here to help me pull the sucker and show me how to rebulid it right, id go that route but u know how machine shops are....they will rape ya and even at that YOU DONT KNOW IF THE WORK IS BEING DONE RIGHT! so OK, i wont put in the arp's and i will use the standard bolts--what is the torque on the nuts??
now u guys have me worried that the thing will grenade when i fire it up!
regards
ben

 

_nut, how did you 'KNOW' the rod bearings needed replacemant ? Have you ever heard the loud double click that a failing FE fuel pump makes ? The valve gear can make some pretty strange sounds as well. 90% of the customers we get at the shop who think they have bad bearings turn out to have some other problem. Lots of fuel pumps, broken rockershafts, bent pushrods. One guy had us redo his whole engine, we found nothing wrong. He seemed disappointed that we found no problems, but wanted us to order him a new flexplate before he put the engine back in. His old one was cracked !! ARRRRGH ! If he had told us that before, he could have saved himself several hundred dollars. DF

 

I must mention here and now, that I've seen
very few failures in the FE rod bearings,
mains, yep, seen a ton, but rods, rarely...
Finally I found an answer, at high RPM, the
rod journals will suck the oil off the mains,
through centrifical force, and it seens to
happen with all of Fords engines, spin them
hard enough, and you'll get a main bearing
failure before a rod bearing failure...

Steve & the Rockette
'63 F100
'68 F100
'72 Capri 2L
'73 Capri 2.6L V6
'73 MG B GT 2.6L V6(Ford)
'98 Contour SVT 2.5L V6 (Mods)
'01 ZX2 (No Mods yet)

 

i replaced the fuel pump about a month ago so i know it is good. I remember you telling me in a prior post to check it--which i did--so i ruled that out. Lets see--as for the top end of the motor, do you remember when i posted about a burnt valve? well this was the same motor BEFORE i uncorked the bottom end. as for the valve situation, i cleaned them all up, replaced those that were burnt, re-lapped them in with lapping compound and finished the job out with new umbrella seals. ONCE i got it all together---and after the motor warmed up--there it was--that "lub" "lub" "lub" "lub" ect--real audible at warm idle. So i ask, what else could it have been? believe me DF and canzus, i DID NOT want to take the sucker apart but then again, i wasnt gonna be stuck out in the middle of the interstate with a seized block. as far as i could tell when i had the top end apart, there were NO bent pushrods or rocker assemblies. everything looked good! im not as skilled as you are for sure but i think that the bearings ARE the culprit....ill let u know 4 sure when i get it all together---prob next weekend---right now, its sitting apart in my driveway what to do what to do!

 

There are some very good mechanics here, and
can help with any question you can dream up...

That said, I have a question for you, did the
low knock sound the same on both sides of the
engine??

Steve & the Rockette
'63 F100
'68 F100
'72 Capri 2L
'73 Capri 2.6L V6
'73 MG B GT 2.6L V6(Ford)
'98 Contour SVT 2.5L V6 (Mods)
'01 ZX2 (No Mods yet)

 

the knocking was very audible one the engine warmed up and it idled. yes, it did sound the same from both sides. how i know this is because i did the old broom handle trick. touched the block with one end(right above the oil pan rail) and put the other end up to my ear. Sure enough, i heard that knock sound. Like i said, its still all apart in my driveway but now im kind of having second thoughts about throwing those inserts in and buttoning it back up. i use this thing as a 2nd daily driver and the last thing i need is to be going down the highway and hear BOOM-------so i dont know what to do here. if i had a digital camera, id scan u a pick of what the rod bearings look like--IMHO, they dont look that cool.....any more suggestions???

regards
ben

 

 

Okay, now I'm scared. You did WHAT ? Valve seats should be cut. At least 3 angles. Don't know how you could do it with less. Valves should be ground. If you didn't do it this way, you did it wrong. Hand lapping valves with paste became obsolete in the 40s. It doesn't do anything. It never did anything. It only shows you where the contact lines are on the valve. Really now, where did you even FIND valve lapping compound? I didn't think anyone even made the stuff for at least 50 yrs ! DF

 

Now wait a sec here, I thought your post said you had the rod bearing out and it was worn down to copper?

IF you've already looked at the rod bearing and their down to copper, then you have to replace them and you need to inspect the crank. taking off the mains is no real problem and IF you have several rod bearings down to copper, I'd say to pull all them mains and rods.

I guess that you can install mains and rods without removing the engine, I've seen it done. But the FE requires the pushing on the crank while torqine center main (most FE books have a pic of this)

Either way, you already have it torn down, so why skimp here?

All this assumes that you've found the reason WHY the rod bearings went bad. I had a rod bearing problem on mine and couldn't find the problem so I pulled the whole thing out and gave it to a speed shop and said "here fix it..." They did and it was a rod that was not recondidtioned properly (mail order from PAW), now it's fixed properly.

my point is that rod bearing don't just go out like that. And don't even think about replacing bearing with a damaged crank.