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lubricity additive study

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Old Aug 31, 2007 | 05:25 AM
  #16  
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From: Woodbine, Maryland
Originally Posted by duffman77
22 Pages!!!

How about a synopsis or at least point us to the key post numbers??


read it, because what i would have to say wouldnt be as good as you learning it on your own.
 
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Old Aug 31, 2007 | 06:59 AM
  #17  
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From: Schwenksville,Pa
Originally Posted by duffman77
22 Pages!!!

How about a synopsis or at least point us to the key post numbers??
It seems that biodiesel, in as little as 2% concentration provides better lubricity than any fuel supplement tested. A few of the common fuel supplements, such as Stanadyne and Power Service did little good and several, including Marvel Mystery Oil and Lucas were actually worse than not using them. Lubricity is important for fuel system components, especially injector life. I've been using double dose Power Service but just found a station near me that sells biodiesel. Here's a link that lists any biodiesel stations near you: http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/retailfuelingsites/
 
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Old Aug 31, 2007 | 07:37 AM
  #18  
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As I understand it, Lubricity wasn't a major issue with high quality road diesel before LSD. I further noted that this test was done with raw ULSD meaning "unsupplemented" with any lubrication package. I HOPE the the ULSD they are selling at the pumps will not cause a scar of 680 microns if left untreated. I am amazed that you could take RAW ULSD and bring it to the required lubricity by adding a pint of two-cycle oil to it. I believe in the BIODIESEL as a fuel alternative (maybe the dinosaur fuel should be the alternative) but, thats not for here and now. I don't like Fords 5% limit, but understand that with cold, potential long storage standing in fuel tanks of undriven trucks, etc, Ford needs to protect itself from us "John Doe's" of the world who will blame the inherent fuel issues with b.d. on the truck. Just my two cents worth. I believe all the ULSD supplied at the pumps is already fortified to bring the scaring back to at least FED standards. I will keep using DK cause I am not using it as a primary lubricator. I would LOVE to see the same test run on about 6 different "from the pump" retail ULSD fuels (by "brand" so to speak) so we could see who has got the best lubricant supplement package. Two-stoke oil? Fascinating.
 
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Old Aug 31, 2007 | 08:06 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by duffman77
One thing I find concerning in this study are the products that tested worse than the regular fuel. I find that very hard to believe and question the quality of the testing.
The reason why some products tested so poorly is that some of these additives are the equivallent of straight kerosene and paint thinner.

People are going to bash this test and rip it apart to sound more intelligent. However, you have to realize that this test is a very good baseline and guide to follow when it comes to diesel fuel additives. Read the labels and understand exactly what you are dumping into your tank.
 
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Old Aug 31, 2007 | 04:29 PM
  #20  
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All, I hope nobody took my two cents as a bash. This was a Great Test. I was interested in both the fact that LSD in the raw is rough, plus the fact that the lubricity of the various additives may be affected by the amount of cetane boost that goes into it. Again, I hope nobody took my two cents as a bash. I learned alot from this post and the test. rc
 
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Old Sep 3, 2007 | 04:18 PM
  #21  
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Thought I would shed some light on the study. It was a blind study that some of the members and supporting vendors paid for. Items tested were off the shelf. The only exception to this I think was the Opti-Lube products. They can only be purchased from Opti-Lube. This is noted in the report. All products were repackaged in numbered bottles and sent to the testing company so there would be no bias in the results. Why was each sample not tested several times? A single test was $250. There were some manufacturers that paid for testing as they were interested in the reults. But their product was purchased off the shelf. Hope this clears things up a bit. I have followed this from the inception. It was a long and difficult project but thorough.
 
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Old Sep 3, 2007 | 08:11 PM
  #22  
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Might have to give that Opti-Lube stuff a try. No bio-diesel in my area.
 
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Old Sep 3, 2007 | 09:48 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by rchouser
As I understand it, Lubricity wasn't a major issue with high quality road diesel before LSD. I further noted that this test was done with raw ULSD meaning "unsupplemented" with any lubrication package.
It would be interesting to find out more about what "unsupplemented" meant and whether or not the ULSD at the pumps has better lubricity.

I do think my next trip to Austin will be to fill up a couple of 5 gallon containers w/ B100 (assuming it is Soy diesel I guess). At 1/2 gallon per fill-up, 10 gallons should last a while.
 
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Old Sep 3, 2007 | 10:10 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by bismic
It would be interesting to find out more about what "unsupplemented" meant and whether or not the ULSD at the pumps has better lubricity.
Unsupplemented fuel is just that, the USLD you buy at the pumps is "supposed" to meet the ATSM spec for #2D fuel which is an HFRR test result of 520 microns or less. My understanding is that the fuel is treated predelivery by the transport company with an additive package to restore lubricity. Unfortunately there's no good way to check unless you have an HFRR in the back of your truck

Based on the people we're depending on to ensure the proper additives are being added to our fuel I for one make every effort to ensure I run additive in EVERY tank.
 
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Old Sep 3, 2007 | 10:24 PM
  #25  
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Thanks for the specifics! 520 is the main info I was looking for. IF the fuel is properly supplemented, then the delivered fuel at the pump would be in the top ten results of the study. hmmm..... I also will (have been since day 1) treat every tank, still deciding on what to use / keep using. I really hesitate to jump on the Opti-Lube bus without hearing more testimonials. All the other things such as corrosion resistance, de-emulsifying effectiveness, etc. are also important and probably a lot harder to quantify.
 
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Old Sep 3, 2007 | 10:42 PM
  #26  
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In terms of the study what you really want to look at is the difference in the numbers (ie how much the additive actually improved the fuel's lubricity) not what the final wear values actually were.

If you are looking at the final wear values what the study actually shows is that if you are unfortunate enough to get untreated fuel at the pump the top nine products will bring the fuel into ASTM spec.
 
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Old Sep 5, 2007 | 01:38 PM
  #27  
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If anyone tries out the Opti-Lube stuff (either the old stuff or the new XPD) I would like to hear their impressions too.

I will continue to run PowerService for now because it is found easily and is cheap.
I have considered running Stanadyne, but I haven't found it anywhere locally.
 
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Old Sep 9, 2007 | 08:32 PM
  #28  
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I just got a couple of 5 gallon containers filled w/ Biodiesel. I will add 1/2 gallon per fillup (1 gallon at first) or apprx 2%. This should last me about three months. I really don't expect to notice anything different - except maybe it will be a little quieter. I will continue adding my Stanadyne Performance formula. The biodiesel is from Cotton Seed Oil and was $3.00 a gallon with a BTU content about 10% less than #2 diesel. Shouldn't see much, if any, impact on fuel economy. I spent a lot of time on the internet trying to determine if the Soy based Biodiesel has better lubricity enhancement than the Cotton Seed Oil based Biodiesel. Couldn't find anything for sure, but it appears the oxygen molecules in the Biodiesel hydrocarbon chain is the main lubricity enhancement factor. These are formed in the manufacture of the Biodiesel. This should be relatively the same for the different sources. The only other thing is to watch for signs of the fuel filter plugging since the Biodiesel is a good "cleaner". Adding Stanadyne is no big deal w/ the MSR aluminum fuel bottles from Campmore - I guess I'll keep a 1/2 gallon container in the bed of the truck to have for the next fillup (maybe the MSR fuel bottles come in quart or half gallon size).

I think I will check into the Biodiesel forums for awhile.
 
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Old Sep 10, 2007 | 07:11 AM
  #29  
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Part of the reason why biodiesel is such a good lubricity enhancer is because there are NO aromatics in it. It's 100% long-chain paraffins.

Aromatics (like naptha) are VERY poor lubricants, but have extremely low cloud (or freeze) points, which is why make good cold-weather fuel additives.

Paraffins, on the other hand, make good lubricants, but have cloud points well above freezing. Which is why you have to cut them with aromatics in order to keep them liquid below the freezing point of water.

(there are some other chemical reasons for the difference, but this is the big "take home" point.)

-blaine
 
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Old Sep 10, 2007 | 02:30 PM
  #30  
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AARRRRRGGGGGH! What will happen if I add 2% of pure biodiesel to #1 Diesel in 0 degree F weather? Will it cloud or be aroma-cized and run. I guess I could mix up a bucket and set it outside and see if it gels? I want to run the biodiesel as a lubricant + my diesel kleen. Hope I end up with room for fuel.
 
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