Hi RK! Is that really you? I never would have guessed! On the infopop I am Welder. Small world eh?

Yeah, I know that Pizzaman has his setup as a valveless system and I think Perkhouse does too, but I'm not sure. I definately know that there's at least 2 or 3 greasers over there who run their conversions the "valveless" way. I recomend it to anyone. It is better than any svo kit makers system because they all recomend using one lift pump (stock or aftermarket) to draw both fuels through a selector valve under vacuum. The valveless way reall discourages air bubbles because there's no vacuum to draw bubbles in through imperfect fittings. With valveless, you'll know if you've got a leak because you'll get the odd drip of fuel here or there, but with the single pump you only know there's a leak because of rough running etc. The difference is that with valveless, you can easilly find the dripping fitting whereas with the one pump system you gotta check em all, posibly even overtightening good fittings and stripping them. Valveless rocks!




A handful of members over there think I'm a joke because I haven't done my conversion yet. I've been too busy studying other peoples conversions to actually finish mine. My critics say that experience is the best teacher. I say, let them remember what experience taught the unfortunate victims of the Hindenburg, Space Shuttle Columbia and the Titanic. Experience is important, but with something mechanical, study of wrote knowledge is more important. For example,the other day, I averted an explosion when I cought one of the junior welders absent mindedly shooting 2 foot long flames directly at his propane tank. He was in such a hurry to perform according to the supervisors production expectations, he got zoned out and forgot safety. He was preheating a heavy plate with a tiger torch and he had left the tank behind the plate and walked around the plate with the torch and was shooting flame across the plate directly at the tank valve and regulator.

What would experience have tought the junior guy and all us other guys if I hadn't happen to be walking past him at that time? Claim ten points if you answered "nothing". He certainly wouldn't have done it again.

One of the first things I was tought in Welding school was to be paranoid with any explosive or flammable substances. I ALWAYS am.

While I'm sure the new guy was tought to be careful with that type of stuff, he obviously wasn't tought a health fear of it.

I know that a fried IP and an exploded propane tank are two different things, but the point I'm trying to make is that training counts and knowledge is part of training. If I were doing svo conversions professionally, I would do them all as valveless systems sharing the FPHE between both fuels. Minimise risk and you'll maximise performance.

I Feel your pain RK. Don't feel too bad, the same fate befell the first IP in Soyburbans' old suburban a while back. It may seem cowardly, but I'm learning by other folks actions. I"ll likely make a few mistakes on my own conversion, but they will be minor ones. Three years of study will see to that.

 

Fluxcore -

Yes it is me . In some earlier experimentation, I briefly ran the valveless system . I am very frustrated in this situation
considering myself a good bit more than a newb at this . I am very upset that I let this happen and having to spend $400-600 (depending on the core allowance from a local rebuilder - http://www.tdesystems.com/ )+ my time to replace the IP that I recently replaced on this less than perfect single cab work truck not worth a lot of $ .

BTW- For those that are interested , here is the link for GM 6.2 pump failure on thr Iinfopop WVO forum which Fluxcore / Welder referred to -

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/8521030821

 

Hi Pete/RK.


I don't blame you for being upset. If it were me, I would be a little choked about it too.

If your IP died from thermal shock, then staying with a valveless setup wouldn't have saved your IP. Personally, I think all svo systems whether valveless or not, and whether rotary IP or inline IP should share a FPHE between both fuels just ahead of the IP intake. It's cheap insurance and makes a lot of sense. Just because nobody has ever reported failure with an inline IP, it doesn't mean that thermal shock isn't doing small bits of dammage at each switchover. I'm not sure exactly what materials are used in all IPs, but I know that different material have different coefficients of thermal expansion and contraction. Even inline IPs have pretty tight tolerances to make pressure, so it makes sense to warm the IP gradually.

I hope you never experience this again.

 

Check out this conversion kit. It heats all fuel in a vew large cleanable fuel filter. This a great system. I currently have the sysytem on my mercedes diesel. I looking into installing it on my 94 7.3 IDI.

http://www.lovecraftbiofuels.com/

I just recently replaced my stanadyne Ip and I asked Shiver Diesel in Tifton Ga about running WVO. They said it will eventually ruin the pump. They said it is just too thick. They told me all the same stuff about in line pumps on mercedes and rotary pumps like on the 7.3 IDI.
I am planning on getting the conversion kit from lovecraft and run a mix in one of the tanks and diesel in the other. Start it on diesel and once the engine water warms up switch to the mixed tank. Mixed(WVO and diesel) burns much easier thn straight WVO in my mercedes. I am starting on the stuff-one tank system and it runs great. I cannot say enough about the kit from Lovecraft. The filter is just awesome.

orb

 

Okay, I don't want to sound negative, but I personally wouldn't buy from lovecraft. I mean take a look at their products. They claim that everything is patented, but they habven't actually done anything really new. The svo filter is the filter element and clear bowl out of a Goldenrod/Baldwin B10AL. Their patented heat exchanger is basically a coil in tube style HE and is also not patentable.


They offer no method of active dewatering that I can see.

Water will kill your IP, not wvo. Clean (filtered to 5 microns or less), dry (less that 700 PPM water content and hot (175-210 deg F) wvo is like mothers milk to your IP. It has many times greater lubricity than the ULSD that most people feed their engines. This means far less wear will occur over time. The one caveat that I add to this is that I personally tell everyone that water washing their wvo is almost mandatory prior to filtration and dewatering. The water removes sugars, soaps and salts that MAY eventually kill your IP. Without water washing you wvo, I'd agree with Shiver Diesel.

This is because sugar is bad for combustion, and may re chrystalise in your fuel system if the water is gone. The salts, soaps and sugars are very hygroscopic and will suck up any atmospheric water that they contact. Since almost no greasers use dessicant breathers on ther fuel tanks, unless they live in a very dry climate, it's only a matter of time before the salts, soaps and sugars pull water out of the air and hold it in your fuel. This doesn't mean the atmospheric water will add up fast enough fry your IP for sure, but why gamble? If you use your fuel before it can grab more than 700 PPM water (the German Federal svo standard), you will be fine. If you don't, you are gambling. I'd rather wash the water soluble (and therefore hygroscopic) crud away before filtration and then dewater.

All this changes if you own a centrifuge because the CF will knok the water out of the WVO first because it's heavier than the crud. Then, because the oil is dry, the crud can't easilly stay in suspension and usually spins out in the CF rotor. Water is cheaper than a CF, but in drought prone areas like Arizona and Australia, why waste water, go CF. I live in Vancouver B.C. Canada. In B.C. we are sitting on more fresh water than any other part of the North American continent. If Canada shunted it's fresh water out into the ocean, USA would suddenly be VERY thirsty. I will water wash until I can afford a CF.

Buy Plantdrive or Frybrid, not Lovecraft. Better still , build your own system.

I want to clarify that when I recomended the Infopop forum, I wasn't saying it should replace this forum. This is the best forum for Ford owners to pool data. The Infopop forum almost biofuels only.

 

Thanks for the info. I do have a lovecraft kit for my mercedes 300sd and it works awesome. The kit is made up of a large glass Heat exchange filter with a cleanble filter element( 10 microns) and a heat exchange in the place of the stock filter. It also has a aux fuel pump. The sysytem work very well. I do agree with waht you are saying about clean and hot WVO. I do have some questions about dewatering the WVO. I have not been doing this? How do you measure the content of the water in the WVO? And how do you eliminate the water, or bring it down to acceptable levels? I have been allowing the WVO to settle for 48hrs to one week before pooring off the top.


ORB

 

I feel like a jerk after bashing Lovecraft and then hearing that you have their kit. Oh well, sorry.


Anyway, the cheapest way to do a water analysis is to do something variously called "the crackle tast", "the bubble test", or "the pan test".

You'll need to buy a cheap infra-red temp gun and an electric frying pan with an adjustable dimmer switch. If the pans dial is in too large of increments, you could always go to a hardware store and buy a finer control dimmer switch and wire it into a short extension cord. The pans built in dial would be left cranked up to maximum and the dimmer switch would then be used as it would offer finer power adjustment.

I'm not sure of all the details, but it involves getting the frying pan up to around 300 degF and then observing a thin finger of oil that is drizzled accross the frying pan. You are looking for bubbles. Bubbles mean steam which is water. Getting the temp set accurately is important because temp influences the speed and intensity of steam bubble formation. You don't want to scorch the oil and get a false water positive while misinterpreting oil vapours as being steam.

As I said before, this forum is indispenible as a Ford fact source, but for serious biofuels info, you need to get around more.

Start with searching for bubble test, crackle test or pan test on the search engine at infopop.

Details matter and since I can't guarantee that I've given them to you correctly, you should verify my input. To be honest, I've never looked up the details because on the other forum it's the water test is considered to be something so basic that I've never bothered to actually look closer because the info is always there to be had and I knew that despite the importance of water testing, I was never in a hurry to memorise the details.

I'm sure you could find the info on the Frybrid forum too, just don't let anyone rope you into one school of thought. I've posted on every biofuel forum that I know of, but I prefer non commercial ones as you get a wider variety of non biased input. That having been said, check out the forum at goldenfuelsystems.com

Now that I've told you the cheapest way, the easiest way is to spend $2-3000 on a water-in-oil meter and just test the oil directly. The closest ones are at EESiFlo.com

Many folks don't dewater and they get away with it. It's a risky habit. For less than $150 you can be pan testing.

Google Dana Linscott if you can't find any info the other ways I said. Dana is huge on water testing. As always, no matter who's preaching at you, swallow the meat and spit out the bones.