I recently built a 289 using a 302 block for my 67 Bronco. I installed 70 351W heads and used Keith Black pop-ups to get the compression to 9.6 to 1. The rings that were called for were Hastings Powerflex Moly, and I hand a machine shop do the short block.
The engine has a little over 1000 miles on it and so far so good. Changed the oil at 500 miles and all. Used 10-30 regular oil the whole way. I have really been working on dialing in the carb then the electric fuel pump crapped out on me and I installed new Holley blue pump with regulator. The other pump was a Carter Federal Mogul and worked great for three years and then the fuel pressure guage told me it was gone!
The truck has a 600 CFM Holley vaccum secondary 1850 manual choke carb that I dropped the jets down to 62s. The plugs looked great.
The vaccum advance on the old points distributor is disconnected because the damn thing pings under load. The timing is set to 14 initial. It will still pind at 10. I already tried that!
This weekend I went a little wild with it on a long drive and was running the engine up to 4500-5000 Rpms on some country roads. At the end of the day it was blowing smoke out of the tail pipes! One side even blew smoke rings.
I pulled a couple plugs and they were oily as hell! The oil level was down 2 quarts. I refilled the pan and then went on a mild cruise and drove Monday. I pulled the plugs this morning and they looked great again?
I wanted to see if Moly rings can be like that. My friends who are mechanics say that they can be finicky and take a while to fully seat. I think the machine shop, who has done a good bit or work for me in the past with no problems, probably did the boring and honing correctly.
Wanted to get input from yall see what advice you can give!

 

what kind of oil r u using?

 

You are probably losing 2 to 3 mpg by not having a good performing vacuum advance.

And you need to be able to run more than 10 degrees initial in order to have real good acceleration.

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well for motor break it its always good to run a think oil like 30wt or Rotella Diesal oil for the first 500 miles. also you need to keep the rpms below 3000 and speed between 50-65mph during the first 1500 miles. the oil should be changed at 500,1500,3000 once thats complete you can run 10-30 etc... what brand oil filter are you using?

sounds like imporper break in procedure and the rings didnt seat properly. I would take it back to the machine shop and tell them to fix it.

 

Running 10:30 castrol with a K&N filter. Timing is set at 14 initial plus the mechanical. I usually change oil 500-1500-3000 etc.
I'll try the 30 wt Rotella and look into the distributor situation. Who carries that stuff? NAPA, Fisher, Carquest?
The reason I hesitate on the distributor is the gear thing. I am running a comp cams retrofit roller and they tell me to use a cast gear. I think Duraspark uses cast gears, but DUI's use steel.The harness in the thing is a Painless harness, which helps on wiring.
Is this a problem with Moly Rings? I am usually a gloom and doomer and would bet the rings can't be saved, but people with lots more experience with Moly rings say they are hard to seat because machine shops don't always uses the exact procedures the ring manufacturers specify. I know that speed pro and total seal gapless are pretty popular now and the might had a slightly different hone finish that Hastings rings.
Just broke in another 302 wich is running great with standard rings and a hydraulic flat tappet cam and cheesy cast pistons for a cheepo rebuild for my F-250 and comp cams oil additive for break in.
Is this type of problem getting more common because the oil now is lacking all the additives it used to? Comp Cams told me I didn't need the additive because it was a roller cam so I didn't worry about it. Maybe I should have.

 

No, the rollers roll on the cam and don't require the oil film to keep from being metal to metal like a flat tappet cam. So the cam lube wasn't needed. You can even reuse roller lifters on another camshaft, unlike flat tappets.
I know you are not supposed to hold a steady speed very long when breaking in Moly rings. A lot of acceleration and deceleration for the first 500 miles helps them seat better.
I also wonder if perhaps your intake gaskets are leaking on the bottom. I had this happen of a 460 once and it would suck oil in the bottom of the ports at higher rpms.

 

Boba, disregard all that distriburtor stuff by that vendor. hes blowing smoke up your ****.

always start with the heavier oils like 30wt or Rotella due to structure of the oil for the first 500 miles. 10-30 is just to light at this point. I am willing to bet you need to replace the rings with some speedpro or other brand. have the cylinder walls checked out while the rings are being replaced. i would also talk with the machine shop that built the shortblock and have a few kind words with them.

 

I know the shop that did the work and they have done good work for me many times. I'm going to get some Rotella 30 in the crank case and see if that helps for now.

Definately going to go 5000 miles and then see where it is before I contemplate a teardown.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

when does it smoke?

all the time or just on take off.....?

does it smoke a bit in the mornings when you first start it?

ask the machine shop if they use the proper ring gap for the KB pistons? if they just put the ring on and stuffed them in you might have a proplem. But just ask what the ring gap was and see what they say...... those piston need a larger then normal upper ring gap and unless they knew that or read the distructions they most likly just installed them like evey other ring. the upper ring is higher than normal on the piston and it get hotter, so if the ring gap is too tight they have no room to grow and crack.


go to the KB website and check it out.

just an idea.....

also where the heads reworked?
and was the rocker geometry checked? I did a 302 with 351W heads and I needed longer push rods...you might have some bad guides.....

hope this helps

 

Quite frankly, we don't appreciate your accusation. It is a proven fact that a properly funtioning vacuum advance improves gas mileage. It is also very detrimental to be experiencing detonation when only running 10 degrees of initial timing.

 

this thread is about oil consumption. not mpg in regards to a bad vacum advance. if you wish to sell someone your product why dont you pm them instead of plugging your business. in regards to his timing issue simply changing out the vacum advance with a new one will probably fix the problem. but again this would not have any affect on his oil consumption issue.

 

I checked the geometry and it was good. I can recheck it again thought.

The machine shop knew that they were KB pistons and I can check what they set the ring gap at.

It smokes out of the right side worse than the left and it's casual. Usually smokes after long usage when you are running the RPMs around up and down and when you are driving really slowly at higher steady RMPs, for instance 4 Lo. It smokes and then doesn't. Usually when you either accel or deccel.

I think the oil wiper ring setup is bad. The cranks spins clockwise and slings oil to the right. I am not getting oil through the pcv system or out any gaskets. Therefore I am betting that those oil wiper rings are not wiping the oil from the cylinders and causing the smoke I see.

I am really going to let this thing go for 5000 miles before I tear it down. Three things will happen: It will cooperate quit smoking. It will blow up and die. It will keep smoking and be torn down.

Advice I am getting from other people is that moly rings are famous for eating bores out and oil rings that suck and that it's better to use the moly top two rings and standard oil rings. Or you hone the bores so fine that you get 30K 45K miles from the motor before it starts running like it has 150K miles on it.

 

I actually got some good info today. I called Hasting and they told me that the bores should be honed with 280 stones. Also stopped by the machine shop and they said they used 280 stones.

Then I called the guy that did the heads and asked him what he thought it might be. He told me that with Moly rings he always used 600 stones and finish honed the bores with cork stones. I know that wasn't done. Let me knoe what you think.

He also recommended a leakdown test. Said if it's over 15 percent its rings. I'll let you know when I get around to it.

 

did you tell the machine shop what hastings said to use before they told you what they used?? or did they tell what they used before you mentioned hastings comment?? i would also post over on corral.net and see what those guys have had experience with these rings

 

More info. Think the shop was competent.... they did the rings right....
I filled the gas tank and dropped two containers of Marvel Mystery oil in the tank on the advice of one of my friends here and let the stuff mix up overnight.
Next day I used the truck and the smoking was stopped.... so it was the rings...... and I have more bad news, my other pal was right.... the engine is spark knocking the rings loose. I was able to hear it for the first time with the Mystery-oiled gas... a discernable ping under load, even with no vaccum advance.
I dropped by another machine shop that I though might re-curve the distributor and ask them what they thought. They do mostly racing stuff. They said that they don't re-curve them anymore and that I should upgrade to a total MSD ingition setup, pro billet and 6AL. I am currently running pertronix in the distributor and a Flamethrower coil. They said that more engines these days are being eaten up by the lousy gas and old distributors than ever before. I got 9:6 to 1 in that thing which is high.... so I probably should have used AL heads. At least I finally know what's going on with the darn thing!