Hey guys,
This question was touched on awhile back but after reading all the replies, the question I had never really got answered. I'm rebuilding a 351w for durability, economy, and torque (in that order) and since I have 4 rocker arms that are bad (looks like scoring and pitting where the ball is, and 2 are worn where they contact the valve) I'm looking at replacing them with roller-tip rockers.Same ratio 1:6. Roller-tip only. To be blunt, are they worth the 140.00 or should I just replace the bad ones at approx. 7.00 ea. I don't mind the money if it's gonna make a difference. But, conversely, I'm not looking to throw away cash either. Just wondering.

Chuck

 

I think you answered your own question when you said you noticed valve stem tip wear with the stock rockers. The roller tip eliminates that. It also creates less friction. They are especially beneficial if an aftermarket cam is used with stiffer valve springs. In other words, they will help you meet your goals.

 

Please just don't buy the stamped steel mess that just have roller tip put on, they are cheap, and it is completely worth the extra $20 to use full roller rockers, like Crane energizers. The roller tip rockers are not even as strong as stockers, and they can deflect enough to cause poor rocker arm geometry. Roller rockers are the way to go, I love mine, but they are expensive. If you decide to go with them, let me know, I can help walk you through the adjustment, I've done it many, many times, until I figured out to use locktite on the stud so that you don't have to do it every week.

Cadet Second Lieutenant John F. Daly III
South Carolina Corps of Cadets, The Citadel
The TorqueKing

 

If you decide to go with
>them, let me know, I can help walk you through the
>adjustment, I've done it many, many times, until I figured
>out to use locktite on the stud so that you don't have to do
>it every week.
>
>Cadet Second Lieutenant John F. Daly III
>South Carolina Corps of Cadets, The Citadel
>The TorqueKing

John, does this mean I should have done the same on my studs? I rebuilt a 351W and used screw in studs with roller rockers. It being my first rebuild ever I'm still learning stuff that I didn't do or shoulda done. It's got about 800 miles on the rebuild and I haven't noticed any problems. Should I pull the valve covers off and check the studs? Geezzz, this forum teaches me something new every day.
Thanks bud.

Ron

 

Messing with the valve train on a ford is tricky. It's not like a Chevy where you can put them on, adjust them and go. Ford uses the rocker arm to guide the push-rods. The older engines used "rail rockers" where the tip of the rocker had metal rails which ride on either side of the valve stem. In other words, the valve stem is holding the rocker from moving side to side. The later rockers used a "pedestal mount" rocker. They machined grooves in the head casting where the rocker fulcrum fits into. None of these systems are adjustable from the factory. When you start messing with the factory set-up, you need adjust-ability. The after-market guys have little tricks and things to make them adjustable, but most will only work with certain products. The best way, but more expensive way, is to get the heads machined for screw-in studs and use guide plates and hardened push-rods. Then you can use any rocker you want. One of the cheaper ways is to use a kit from Crane that uses plastic coated guide plates and requires no machine work.

 

I agree with you Franklin concerning the best way (screw in studs, guideplates, and hardened pushrods). This is the set up that I have. John has me wondering though if I should have used Loctite on my screw in studs.

 

Yeah, it never hurts to check it. The easiest way to check it is to pull the covers, and try to wiggle them side to side. If the rocker is NOT on the cam base circle (undergoing valve lift), then they should give a little resistance, not too much. then once you've checked the ones that have not seen lift, hit the starter to rotate the engine until you can check the ones that had lift on them before. This may take many steps, but you can only check the adjustment when they are not at lift, so just rotate until you find each one. You may not have any problems, and I hope you don't, but even if you do, all you gotta do is reset the lash. just find zero lash + 1/2 turn. It is very nice to have locktite on them, so you never have to worry about your adjustment again. Is it worth pulling them all off again? maybe, if yours are all fine, then proabably not, but if you have a trainwreck under there, then you probably should. I did mine, and it took a couple of hours, just to dry off the studs and the polylocks. If you do, you only need to apply it to the bigger nut, the one that actually touches the thread of the stud, because that's where it came apart (if it did). Hope this helps, but if you've never checked it, it sure never hurts. That's another thing about these great big Fords, is taking the covers off is a snap, and you've got plenty of room to work with.

The TorqueKing

 

BTW, guideplates Rock! htwhlz85, you know as well as I do, there's nothing keeping those suckers from spinning without those guideplates

The TorqueKing

 

>Messing with the valve train on a ford is tricky. It's not
>like a Chevy where you can put them on, adjust them and go.
>Ford uses the rocker arm to guide the push-rods. The older
>engines used "rail rockers" where the tip of the rocker had
>metal rails which ride on either side of the valve stem. In
>other words, the valve stem is holding the rocker from
>moving side to side. The later rockers used a "pedestal
>mount" rocker. They machined grooves in the head casting
>where the rocker fulcrum fits into. None of these systems
>are adjustable from the factory. When you start messing
>with the factory set-up, you need adjust-ability. The
>after-market guys have little tricks and things to make them
>adjustable, but most will only work with certain products.
>The best way, but more expensive way, is to get the heads
>machined for screw-in studs and use guide plates and
>hardened push-rods. Then you can use any rocker you want.
>One of the cheaper ways is to use a kit from Crane that uses
>plastic coated guide plates and requires no machine work.

That's what I'm talking about Franklin! The ones I was looking at are the "rail-type" but with a roller. they're from Comp Cams. Maybe those are the ones TorqueKing is referring to. I don't know. If they're the same as stock, except with a roller-tip, I shouldn't have all the expense of machine work to convert over to an adjustable valve-train. Should I? I'm gonna run a hyd. cam with a SLIGHT amount of extra lift (I'll list specs if necessary). I don't particularly want an adjustable valvetrain. I kinda like the set-it-and-forget-it feature. For an engine that I seriously doubt will ever see the high side of 4500 rpm, I just don't see it as a necessity. Maybe I'm wrong. BTW, the heads I have are '76 models, just before the change to the pedestal type. Whadda you guys think?

Chuck

 

I won't use any type of rail rocker. I had a bad experience a long time ago with them. Most of my valve stem tips ended up getting chewed up, and I had to get new valves. They were not one of Ford's better ideas. Why do you think they went to the pedestal type? Hardened pushrods, screw in studs, and guide plates are the only way to go. They aren't that expensive. If you aren't prepared to go this route, you're better off sticking with stock.

 

If you get a cam with the correct base circle, and the guy who grinds the seats and valves, grinds them to the correct height, and the roller rocker is close enough to the stock rocker, you won't need an adjustable valve train. It's a roll of the dice. If, after getting it together you find you do need adjustment, I think they make a locknut assembly for the rail rockers. If I remember right, it was an extra tall nut, that had a allen set screw in the middle of it. You adjusted the nut for lash, and then while holding the nut, you tightened the allen set screw till it bottomed out on top of the rocker stud to lock the whole thing together.

 

Yeah, the rail type are totally different. The easiest, most powerful, and durable combo is gonna be guideplates/screw in studs/roller rockers. I got a set of hardened ones for $28, made by Comp, the guideplates came with my Windsor Jr. heads, which also included the 7/16" stud, but factory heads must be machined for them if not already equipped, but it's not too much of a hassle.

The TorqueKing

 

 

GOOD Info! I just installed the Roller rockers and now I am in the adjustment stage. Please comment on my proceedure.

1. On the pistion that is being adjusted, bring the piston up to compression stroke or both Valve closed.

2. Screw the adjuster down to the is no play in rocker to push rod to valve stem top.

3. Turn the adjuster 1/2 a turn, then lock down allen screw. (Make sure you use lock tight on adjuster).

Thanks Art

 

You got it, that sounds perfect. You're saving yourself plenty of future headeaches by using locktite, I like threadlocker blue, it'll hold it without being permanent.

'77 F100, 302 (the aftermarket Prodigy), C4
Cadet Second Lieutenant John F. Daly III
South Carolina Corps of Cadets, The Citadel
The TorqueKing