This is a tipic that comes up every now and then, and fair warning, this could get long........

Some of you may remember a while ago I had some trouble with a tranny swap because apearantly, you cannot bolt a big block bellhousing to a diesel engine. Well anyhoo, I got a good diesel case, swapped all the guts, and now I'm in business.

I originally wanted to just put a used transmission in and hope for the best, but after some reflection, and encouragement form my dad, I figured I would go as far as I had to to make sure the trans would hold up in the long run (I don't want to do this again).

I ended up doing my first auto tranny overhaul. Asside from the usual seals, thrust bearings and clutch packs, I also opted to ditch the stock torque converter and the forward planetary, and overdrive planetary. The trans already had the newer style rollerbearing center support, and improved reverse roller clutch. It originally came with all four pinion aluminium carriers, and I opted to leave the reverse in there since they were all in great shape, and reverse is rarely abused the way my truck is used. I also replaced the pump with a higher displacement 1995 type pump.

The forward planetary was replaced with a six pinion steel, and the overdrive with a four pinion steel. Since the truck is turbocharged, I figured better safe than sorry. The torque converter was build by Island torque converter in victoria BC, it has a billet cover, low stall speed, tripple lockup, brazed trubine blades, anti-ballooning plate, and other upgrades that I can't recall. Again, I went for a stronger part because, I didn't want a failure anytime soon. I also used a baumanator shift kit (all at stage one, for now).

Now for the electronics. I went with a baumanator TCS mainly because it was the cheapest one I could find at the time, but on a closer look, its actually a very nice unit. The shift points are fully programable, as well as the line pressure curve, and the controller can store two seperate shift profiles. In theory, it is possible to actually have the E4OD duplicate the automatic engine braking that ford's current torqshift is capable of. There is also provision for semiautomatic control through the cruise control buttons. The tuning software comes with several preprogramed shift tables to choose from, so setup is real easy. Ideally you should use a laptop and do the initial setup in the truck to properly set the TPS signal, but it can be done on a desktop (you need a voltmeter).

I still have to retune the TCS, because right now I'm not happy with where its shifting, but haven't had a chance yet.

The results:

The C6 has a first gear ratio of 2.46:1, the E4OD has 2.71:1, and I do feel a difference. We have a steep driveway, and usually to slowly roll up it, the tach tracks at 1600rpm, but with the new E4OD, its at 1100, and can hold steady on the incline at idle (the C6 would roll back without a foot on the accellerator). Climbing over curbs and ramps are effortless now, I barely have to go above idle, even with 3.08 gears.

As for on the highway, well, I have to keep the overdrive locked out untill about 70mph, which puts me at about 1600rpm. The beauty of this setup, is that I can still effectively cruise at those speeds in 3rd gear if I'm towing, which puts me in the strongest gear, at the ideal rpm for towing, just shy of 2300rpm (no more slip!!).

The transmission is still beaking in, and shifting into 4th is more solid everytime, third was a little soft at first as well, but is now rock solid everytime, so I won't be takeing it on my 200mile trip tomorow, but I might next week. In other words, no, I din't know what the mpg performance is yet, but my goal is a consistent 20 (cross fingers).

As a side note, the original transmission that I got (the one form a 460) came with a transfer case, so I will soon knock a hole in the floor for the shifter, and take advantage of the low range (could some in handy with 3.08s). I also have long term plans to convert to 4wd.

 

sounds like you have a really nice setup there. that 20mpg comes in handy too. currently with the prices of gas and diesel my 91-250 is cheaper to drive than my brother 4cyl s-10 mini pickup its good feeling to have more power and better milelage

 

so how bad was it to rebuild the e4od i am thinking of doing mine myself.

 

crazymike,

As I said, haven't tested the mpgs yet, but at the very least, I'll gain a little from the lockup feature. But I already like the way it drives, the shifting is crisp, and the first gear ratio gives an extra push from standstill.



brownieboy525,

If you can rebuild an engine, you can rebuild an E4OD tranny, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

There are a few special (but simple) tools that you will need, being a wielder/fabricator by trade, I was able to make them up very easily. If you can wield and drill metal, than you can make them up.

There are two specific manuals that you should get, one shows the overhaul proccess, and the other shows the updates that ford made over the years (*cough* microsoft*cough*). The second manual is not essential, but a good idea, if you want to make any updates while you're at it. The manuals I used were ATSG, paid $15 a piece on Ebay.

I would recomend looking through a manual before pulling the tranny to make sure you're comfortable with tackling it. And make sure you have lots of clean workspace, I filled up a 5x6 table with all the parts and it was still tight.

 

UM, yeah, but will it run, and if so for how long!

If there are "PROFESSIONAL" transmission shops that screw things up, how do you know you might not miss something important.

There are a few shops I contacted as I needed a specific thickness snap ring for both the forward and direct clutches to set the clearance, and they wanted to sell them to me, without even asking the thickness I needed, and when asked about this, one hung up on me, the second had no answer as they did not know there was a difference, the third ordered them (they will be here at 10am tomorrow) they said, a week ago!
Bastiges!

And believe me, the manuals say "check for wear and replace the worn parts" the only problem is they never tell you where to look, and in the E4OD there are plenty of places that are easy to miss!

If you were near Joliet, I'd stop by and show you.

OH, and as for simply rebuilding an engine, I have run across quite a few that had excessive, no make that EXCESSIVE piston to head clearance which is a serious performance and reliability issue that 99% of those who rebuild them at home know nothing about.

 

I went to a ford dealer to get all the specialty parts that I needed (one piston was melted, thinner backing plate for OD clutchpack, and other odd parts), the prices were suprisingly reasonable and parts were 2 days away or less.

Yes, it is easy to screw up if your not carefull, since there are many parts in the trans that all have to be in there place. Also, the trans disassembles from one end to another, and a mistake in the rear cannot be seen untill something fails, or you tear into it again.

I will admit I made many mistakes along the way, which is why it is critical to tripple check your work, and have a clear head when you are working. As for worn parts, there are always tell tail signs of something that is loose or damaged, again, basic attention that must be given for an engine overhaul must apply.

When it comes to "professionals", well, I have little experience with them. I haven't been to a mechanic since I had my learner's licence (he has since retired). Most of the so called experts either look at me like I'm nutts, or flat out say that it can't be done, and "it" can mean many things.

From A/C to wheel alignment to auto transmissions, my mottow is, if they can do it, than I can do it, no one touches my truck but me.

 

cool thanks david85. i have rebuilt tons of motors but have never ripped apart a automatic trans. i have been told horor stories of rebuilding the e4od thats why i was hesitant.

 

YEP!
That's the way I feel.

The other part of why I refuse to purchase some newer vehicles is that unless it's covered by the warranty, (my 2002 Elantra is now at 99 thousand miles of a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty) I refuse to pay someone else to fix it, and the newer trucks have way too much computer control for my taste and I feel it's unnecessary other than forcing the "do it your self" guy to go to the dealer as he does not have the $150,000+$ Service Bay Diagnostic computer and all the related software to dive in and fix it right!

I had a 1952 Olds that had a 303 V8, a stock as from the factory 4 speed auto and it got reasonably good mileage for a vehicle that weighed that much compared to one made today, and no doubt with a little work could be made to run reasonably (smog) clean as well.

Also brownieboy525, if you do decide to rebuild it and need any phone advice on what to look for, E mail me and I'll send you my phone number.

 

Its just not worth trading up anymore, My diesel is all mechanical except for the TCS computer (which listens to what I say). My propane powered f150 has two mixture screws in it, and a mechanical/vacuum controlled dizzy with a $20 ingition module, thats it!

I suspect that if one had access to a top of the line labratory, it would be possible to prove that the thermal efficiency of cars and trucks today are no better than the older ones. Sure they can get more consistent mpgs but I think most of the inprovement is from the lighter (crappier) bodies, cars don't even cave chassies anynore! But thats why efficiency is measured (advertised) in terms of MPGs, not energy conversion efficiency%, which would be in the low to mid 20s for most cars.

Anyway....Four speed auto in a 1952 olds? Is that overdrive? I thought they only had 2 or 3 speeds back then.

 

Most did only have 2 or 3 gears but GM, I was told, used 2 of that same 4 speed trans in the WW2 Sherman tank.

And the whole thing of (that same old buzz word scam?) calling something an "overdrive" only tells us that the output shaft turns faster in the top gear than the input shaft turn, but any trans ratio is nothing without taking into account of the rear axle ratio and figuring the total overall ratio.

A trans with a top gear .78 overdrive ratio using a 4.10:1 axle ratio (3.198 total ratio) would have no "top speed" or "lower engine RPM for better gas mileage" advantage over a trans with a direct drive top gear and a 2.79:1 rear axle ratio unless it had more gears to play with.

In the old days there was an overdrive assembly like the Gear Vendor that mounted on the back of the trans, and the input was geared up so the output turned faster, or over-driven.

And some of the Audi 5000 series trans-axles had an overdrive ratio in 3rd, 4th and 5th gear, but the final drive axle ratios were steep so as to deal with it.

Hell, you could call a sharp screwdriver an "assault weapon" if it would help you sell more of them, right?

 

I have a '88 f250 7.3idi. I know my truck has a 3 spd but not much more about the tranny... My grandfather left it to me this year with only 34,406 original miles on it believe it or not! I want to honor him and keep this thing going for a long time. any advice? I run at almost 3000 rpms at 70mph. Is this bad? I've read you all talking of an e4od tranny. Is this what I need? If so how do I begin? I know I am asking alot from you guys that are worlds more experienced than I, but any help would be of utmost appreciation.

thank you kindly
dieselred

 

Daivid85 so did ypu put all of the gas trans internals into a diesel trans shell?

I would like to get a diesel E4OD to put into place of my C6 and would like some help.

Questions.
1. did the linkage all hook up without any problem?
2. Did the drivline need to be shortened?
3. do you have to have computer software to change the shift points on the E4OD.
4. Are there any performance shops that sell stuff like billiet mainshafts and fatter and taller gears and a performance torque converter? This is a big one as i plan on making around 450-500 hp eventually
5. So your torque convertor is a lockup on, do you have a switch where you can make it unlock so it slips ( I think its called a valet switch)?

Thanks Adam

 

dieselred, welcome to FTE.

You Likely have a C6 3speed trans. Its a good simple unit, but the lack of an overdrive can kill you on the freeway, the torque converter will also slip constantly eating up extra fuel.

3000 rpm is not going to kill your engine instantly, but will cause extra wear and burn way more fuel than you have to, I'm going to guess you are getting around 10mpg at those speeds. If you have a 2wd, I might suggest doing a gear swap instead, it would be way cheaper.

Swapping to an E4OD tranny can get ugly, and I have only heard of one other swap that was done in an older truck. You can plan on spending at least $3000 if you buy new, depending on how built up the transmission is. E4ODs can be had for $1000 or less if you know where to find them, and you can retrofit an OEM harness and computer, but it would not programable.

There are a minimum number of updates that I would strongly advise if you are using an OEM built trans.

The first is a better torque converter, and this is often one of the most expencive parts.

The next is a shift kit, the E4OD was calibrated to impress the unsuspecting new car buyer. Most who are not mechanically inclined would assume that a smooth shift means better quality - not so.

Also make sure you get a good aftermarket cooler (mine already had one) and a trans temp gauge (no time yet).



turboman24,


Yes, the internals did swap from the 7.5L case to the diesel case, I don't know if the small block internals would be any different, but I suspect not by much if any.

1. The linkage did not hook up since the E4OD is longer, all I had to do is lengthen the shift rod (wielder by trade), which was easy.

2. The driveline did have to be shortend. I took the front half of the driveshaft from the donor truck, and the rear half from mine and used an offset U joint to put them together (kept the newer stronger slip joint). the center support is now off by 1", but also an easy fix, I made an adapter using 1/4" steel plate. All drive shaft joints turned out strait as an arrow.

3. I got a complete programable controller from baumann electronics. Their TCS system can control the shift timing, converter lockup, and line pressure curve, all of which you can customize. It can also store two seperate shift profiles that can be activated at the driver's discretion on the fly. If you have cruise control, you can also setup the system to shift manually using the accel/coast buttons.

4. Hell yeah! There are so many sources for OEM and aftermarket parts for the E4OD, you can get lost in a hurry. I have seen cryo hardened billet imput shafts but they are not cheap, $700+ I think.

Better gears are avalable OEM, but they are so popular that they are all over Ebay through dozens of different suppliers (price wars, yippee!). 6 pinion steel planetaries go for as little as $60 (new), I don't know of anything that is avalable for the E4 that is stronger. Six pinion is avalable for reverse (more $$), and four pinion steel for overdrive. I'm not sure if there are wider ratio gears avalable, but the E4 already has a fair 1st and 2nd ratio.

I have seen AOD trannies that are rated for 1200hp, getting an E4OD to survive 450-500hp should be doable.

5. All E4ODs have locking torque converters. I have plans to put a manual swich in, but for now the PCM has full control. Unlocking the TC will give better pulling torque if you are caught between gears, so it can act as a gear splitter to SOME digree, but bear in mind that an unlocked TC will make lots of heat, so size your cooler accordingly.

 

Dear dieselred.
You have the C6, one of the most stout and modifiable automatics ever made for production vehicles, you should keep it and add a Gear Vendor and get more than just one more gear in an unreliable package.

Although it sounds like you have a tall set of rear axle gears and adding an E4OD alone would not help all that much when you see how much you spent on the project, and then getting the bill to rebuild the damn thing.

For the cost of E4OD parts alone I could have paid someone to rebuild a healty C6 or rebuilt it myself and modified to handle 1000 HP!

I have seen a $25 FIPL or a small short in the wiring burn up a $2000 E4OD
The C6 is like the 7.3 IDI, even though it's called stupid as it's not computer controlled, it's modifiable, strong, and reliable as hell!


turboman24
Please read the above note to dieselred.

And yes the C6 converter will slip while starting out, but those standard torque converters do not slip much after the vehicle reaches a steady rate of speed, and if it slips 2% just increase the rear axle ratio 10% and gain back what little you lost and then some.

The thing about the locking converter is the computer can make it lock 100% when the computer tells it to, in order to get that .02% better fuel mileage, but I don't think it's worth all the extra ($$ breakable $$) parts.

I would gladly trade my (Finishing assembly this week) E4OD and all the related wiring, computer and what not for someones C6 (even if its used up and worn the hell out) and a good Gear Vendor OD unit.

 

Ok so you are saying that i can keep my transmission and build it with a gear vendors to support 450-500hp and around 1200lbs of torque.

1. Where would i start?
2. I would like to be able to change the shift points as i know you can do by changing the little deal on the IP but i am going to put a 5.9 cummins in for my 6.9. Thats where the 450- 500 and 1200 is coming from. I was talknig to some guys who own a shop in St. George Utah and they said they hooked up an E4OD to a cummins and by being able to program the shift points they were able to keep it right in the power curve the whole time. Said you couldn't even tell that it was shifting. Also said he could do the whole thing for me for 6000$..... "NO WAY" do not have that kind of money laying around.
3. I would be afraid of braking something as i would have so many pieces. transfercase, C6, 3 or 4 drivelines, and the gear vendors unit which i heard can coast around 3 grand.

If you know how to set all this up so i can go to the track with that kind of power and have something reliablde for drivetrain then i would love to know becuase i would much rather go the way you are talking about instead of swapping all this other stuff out.