Ford fibbin?
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Ford fibbin? 97-03 vs. 04-up
A little research on this site revealed the following:
2003 F150, 4.2 with 3.55s, auto, reg. cab, 2 wheel drive maximum tow rating of 5,700lbs.
2006 F150, 4.2 with 3.55s, auto, reg. cab, 2 wheel drive maximum tow rating of 5,200lbs.
2003 F150, 4.6 with 3.55s, auto, reg. cab, 2 wheel drive maximum tow rating of 7,200lbs.
2006 F150, 4.6 with 3.55s, auto, reg. cab, 2 wheel drive maximum tow rating of 6,600 lbs.
The weight different between the old trucks and the new in these models is about 600lbs. Ford brags about this fully boxed frame allowing all this super towing but the numbers dont back it up. The only improvement in towing from the old truck (97-03 generation) to the new (04-up) comes with the 5.4. ALL of the new trucks have fully boxed frames but only one shows any improvement in towing. In fact, the other two tow less than they used to to make up for the huge increase in weight. The new trucks ride great ( i love mine) but all this suggests that the 11,000lb towing Ford brags about doesnt have anything to do with the fully boxed frame. The old, lighter trucks pulled more in every application except the 5.4. any thoughts?
2003 F150, 4.2 with 3.55s, auto, reg. cab, 2 wheel drive maximum tow rating of 5,700lbs.
2006 F150, 4.2 with 3.55s, auto, reg. cab, 2 wheel drive maximum tow rating of 5,200lbs.
2003 F150, 4.6 with 3.55s, auto, reg. cab, 2 wheel drive maximum tow rating of 7,200lbs.
2006 F150, 4.6 with 3.55s, auto, reg. cab, 2 wheel drive maximum tow rating of 6,600 lbs.
The weight different between the old trucks and the new in these models is about 600lbs. Ford brags about this fully boxed frame allowing all this super towing but the numbers dont back it up. The only improvement in towing from the old truck (97-03 generation) to the new (04-up) comes with the 5.4. ALL of the new trucks have fully boxed frames but only one shows any improvement in towing. In fact, the other two tow less than they used to to make up for the huge increase in weight. The new trucks ride great ( i love mine) but all this suggests that the 11,000lb towing Ford brags about doesnt have anything to do with the fully boxed frame. The old, lighter trucks pulled more in every application except the 5.4. any thoughts?
Last edited by red148; Apr 29, 2007 at 11:38 PM.
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That is an interesting bit of research - and from past experience, I certainly wouldn't put it past Ford to cook the numbers a bit. Although I would wonder that if you are comparing 4.2L and 4.6L trucks, the frame wouldn't be the limiting factor so much as the engine. To truly compare 'frame-to-frame' you might have to max out all the other parameters (engine, brakes, axle ratio, etc). I haven't checked out those numbers, but if they show a similar trend, you may be on to something 
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It all has to do with the ford marketing department. Whatever the competitors say the spec's are for their trucks, ford will say well are's can tow 5% more then that etc etc. Another example of this would be the 5.4l 3v engine output. When it first came out it was either class leading or close to. But it always felt slow compared to all competitors. Now we find out that even if we take ford at their word on the engine output, your loosing a lot of that power through the drivetrain and you end up with only like 200hp at the rear wheels. Where the competitors now not only have higher output engines, they also have much more sophisticated and efficient drive trains. I really truly believe that ford has to stop all, and I mean all the fibbin and start treating their remaining customers with more honesty and respect. In the end that's all your really have to get and keep customers. All the fancy "marketing" will only keep your customers distracted for so long before they move on to another companies product.
Last edited by ford9c; Apr 30, 2007 at 08:55 AM.
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From: Isanti, MN
Okay, think about this:
Towing capacity has to do with literally dozens of different variables. Frame is important, but not as important as engine power, low-end torque, tranny, and driveline. Have you ever tried to tow 5,000 lbs with the 4.2? Trust me, the only thing in your mind will be getting that load up to speed, with no mention of frame. Sure, the rest of the truck can handle all that load, but if the engine can't move it at a safe speed, than the truck isn't capable of pulling it.
My '03 had the 4.2, auto, 3.55s, and I towed a 2500 lb boat from OH to SC an back. I would NOT have wanted to tow anything heavier due to the lack of power.
The stiffest frame in the world wouldn't matter for crap if you don't have an engine that will pull the load. The frame is great in the regard that it helps control the load, as well as helps to make it ride nicely, but in this case the engine limits things, not the frame. Heavier truck means more weight, means less towing.
Towing capacity has to do with literally dozens of different variables. Frame is important, but not as important as engine power, low-end torque, tranny, and driveline. Have you ever tried to tow 5,000 lbs with the 4.2? Trust me, the only thing in your mind will be getting that load up to speed, with no mention of frame. Sure, the rest of the truck can handle all that load, but if the engine can't move it at a safe speed, than the truck isn't capable of pulling it.
My '03 had the 4.2, auto, 3.55s, and I towed a 2500 lb boat from OH to SC an back. I would NOT have wanted to tow anything heavier due to the lack of power.
The stiffest frame in the world wouldn't matter for crap if you don't have an engine that will pull the load. The frame is great in the regard that it helps control the load, as well as helps to make it ride nicely, but in this case the engine limits things, not the frame. Heavier truck means more weight, means less towing.
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That's what I was getting at. I think Ford is full of it. The fully boxed frame is a nice, but it makes the truck heavy and it doesn't allow the truck to pull more by itself. The engine and drivetrain will be the biggest thing and the heaviness of these trucks just makes it harder on both of those.
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From: Isanti, MN
Well...um...how are they fibbing?
They SAY towing capacity is less. You just posted it! On the upper end, with the 5.4, it is MORE because the chassis can handle it.
The super duty F350, when equipped with the 5.4l V8 has a maximum towing capacity of 12,100 lbs. Doesn't this imply that the motor can handle more than the chassis can in an F150? Face it...you do NOT want to tow too much with a light duty truck, as the suspension and frame can't handle it. When they beef up the suspension and frame, like they did in '04, the truck can handle more. But, in this case, the capacity of the 5.4L v8 is more than the capacity of the frame and suspension.
Look at the WHOLE PACKAGE, you're comparing apples to oranges!
They SAY towing capacity is less. You just posted it! On the upper end, with the 5.4, it is MORE because the chassis can handle it.
The super duty F350, when equipped with the 5.4l V8 has a maximum towing capacity of 12,100 lbs. Doesn't this imply that the motor can handle more than the chassis can in an F150? Face it...you do NOT want to tow too much with a light duty truck, as the suspension and frame can't handle it. When they beef up the suspension and frame, like they did in '04, the truck can handle more. But, in this case, the capacity of the 5.4L v8 is more than the capacity of the frame and suspension.
Look at the WHOLE PACKAGE, you're comparing apples to oranges!
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you're right about the 5.4. I just dont think its a great development that all the trucks without the 5.4 are now, heavier, slower, and tow less than they used to just so ford can brag about having a fully boxed frame. they started a stupid trend. the new chevys gained about 500lbs. the new tundra is very heavy. there was nothing wrong with a 3900lb regular cab with a tow capacity of 6-7K lbs. wouldnt you agree that the fully boxed frame limits performance if you dont have 3.73s or up and a 5.4? that was my main point. You dont see ford offering the 3.08 anymore do you? they've had to jack it up just to move these things. now we've got heavy trucks with 3.73s or 3.55s doing what a lighter weight truck used to do with 3.08s or 3.31s. they should have left it alone and for those very, very few who need to tow 11,000lbs could buy superdutys.
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I believe the boxed frame is more about stiffening frame to let suspension do its job better resulting in better ride, than higher load/tow capacity.
Agreed numbers are cooked a bit by all manufacturers, max towing is only on reg cab with heavy payload package in 2wd, any of those on the lot? I have never seen one.
If you can't stop the load or the axle bearings can't take the load to me is more important than if I can get the load to the highway speed limit.
Agreed numbers are cooked a bit by all manufacturers, max towing is only on reg cab with heavy payload package in 2wd, any of those on the lot? I have never seen one.
If you can't stop the load or the axle bearings can't take the load to me is more important than if I can get the load to the highway speed limit.
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From: Isanti, MN
I guess it's a matter of opinion. You're right, it is heavier and slower, which does cause issues with fuel economy and acceleration. Where it really shines is when you're towing or hauling something. Sure, it may tow a bit less, but it would HANDLE much better at the limit than the previous generation.
I guess what you're talking about is something in between the Ranger and the F150, as far as weight and capacity and fuel economy.
I like the changes they made, but then again I was looking for maximum capacity and ability when I bought mine.
BTW...my all time best MPG with my Screw was 21.6
I guess what you're talking about is something in between the Ranger and the F150, as far as weight and capacity and fuel economy.
I like the changes they made, but then again I was looking for maximum capacity and ability when I bought mine.
BTW...my all time best MPG with my Screw was 21.6
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From: Maple Grove, PA
i think the truck is great just the way it is.....the 4.6L were slow in the last generation also....i know cause i owned one....
the new truck is great but i gues you'll never please eveyone cause they always will find something wrong...
i had 5,000 lbs behind my last F-150 and it was chore....i did the same thing with my new 07 a couple times now and it towed, moved, stopped the weight fine....it rides better and i get the same MPG as i did with my 4.6L so i don't see what the big deal is or why people have to gripe all the time about it....the truck is great and it works great...
the new truck is great but i gues you'll never please eveyone cause they always will find something wrong...
i had 5,000 lbs behind my last F-150 and it was chore....i did the same thing with my new 07 a couple times now and it towed, moved, stopped the weight fine....it rides better and i get the same MPG as i did with my 4.6L so i don't see what the big deal is or why people have to gripe all the time about it....the truck is great and it works great...
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From: Boise, ID
As you mention in your first post, the new trucks weigh more. Everything else being equal the increased weight will reduce the amount of towing capacity by a similar amount.
The fully boxed frame ad is a joke, but is something the marketing people feel is important. The tow rating is based on drivetrain, suspension, brakes,tires and weight. Notice the 11K truck has the lightest cab, most gear, most heavy duty tire and most suspension of the F150s. Unless there is a need to go with a 1/2 ton for insurance, registration or road use reasons, most people pulling 11K+ would step up to a 3/4 or larger.
The fully boxed frame ad is a joke, but is something the marketing people feel is important. The tow rating is based on drivetrain, suspension, brakes,tires and weight. Notice the 11K truck has the lightest cab, most gear, most heavy duty tire and most suspension of the F150s. Unless there is a need to go with a 1/2 ton for insurance, registration or road use reasons, most people pulling 11K+ would step up to a 3/4 or larger.
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From: Maple Grove, PA
Originally Posted by BruceFX4
As you mention in your first post, the new trucks weigh more. Everything else being equal the increased weight will reduce the amount of towing capacity by a similar amount.
The fully boxed frame ad is a joke, but is something the marketing people feel is important. The tow rating is based on drivetrain, suspension, brakes,tires and weight. Notice the 11K truck has the lightest cab, most gear, most heavy duty tire and most suspension of the F150s. Unless there is a need to go with a 1/2 ton for insurance, registration or road use reasons, most people pulling 11K+ would step up to a 3/4 or larger.
The fully boxed frame ad is a joke, but is something the marketing people feel is important. The tow rating is based on drivetrain, suspension, brakes,tires and weight. Notice the 11K truck has the lightest cab, most gear, most heavy duty tire and most suspension of the F150s. Unless there is a need to go with a 1/2 ton for insurance, registration or road use reasons, most people pulling 11K+ would step up to a 3/4 or larger.
but i bet their are many people that will get 6,000 behind it....
i rode in a 2003 supercab with 6,000 lbs behind it and my 07 feels much more stable in turns and handles the weight much better than my buddies 03 does so i'd have to say that fullly boxed frame makes a difference....
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From: Maple Grove, PA
Originally Posted by Crazy001
I agree with that. My '03 did not feel anywhere near as controlled hauling a load as my '07 does. That, combined with how well it handles empty is what sold me.
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even though i have a 4.6L, it does pull better than the previous gen F150...we had an '01 with a 4.6L, and you wouldn't dare put 8K behind that thing...it wouldn't hardly budge...now the '05 will...granted you aren't going in a hurry, it still takes under 30 seconds to get to a reasonable (55mph) speed...and no, don't bash me for the towing thing, i am well aware that i exceeded the towing capacity, and yes, i have proof that i did this...lol