I have just acquired a 79 donor truck and I am going to try the sheet metal swap recommended by some of you guys. Actually it is now my brother in law's truck so we will be helping each other out.

My question is about the cab to axle length difference between the 65 and the 79. I have seen it described as about 2" difference and that you can just move the 65 bed back on the 79 frame a little (leaving a bigger gap between the cab and the front wall of the bed).

I was thinking about maybe keeping the same gap and letting the axle end up centered a little father back in the wheelwell.

Or a combination of the two. What is my best bet? Does anyone have any pictures of the gap or the repositioned rear axle that results from a 65 bed on a 79 frame?

Also, I plan to do my 65 by swapping all the parts over from the donor to the 65 rather than use the frame from the donor truck (it was bent on the front frame horns pretty badly). So I should be able to give some feedback on which is easier.

Thanks

Chris

 

Chris, In 73 Ford added 4 in. to the back of the cab. This was added behind the rear cab mount, therefore a 65 and newer cab/front clip is a direct bolt up. FBP says that you can fudge that space out. I have never done it, but I figure the worst that would happen is that you would have to bob off some of the rail at the back.

John

 

Chris,
The combination of the two [your paragraph #4] is how I do it.
The wheelbase is only +2" different, with 1973-9 being the longer one.

The 1973-9 frame is also +3" wider than 65-72 because the rear rails in the "CA" area splay outward 1.5" per side. This req's new holes to be drilled in the mounting channels but no biggie if you use piolt holes 1st. Extra width makes the front & rear track width equal instead of having the front wider like Blow Ties are, plus the extra width makes a
flatter & bigger capacity rear, in frame mounted tank possible, instead of OEM In Cab set up our trucks came with. What are you gonna do with the new found room behind your seat now?
The teardrop shape of 65-6 bedside wheel openings is what allows the fudging to hide
IMHO. I don't have picutres but I will make some when I do the next one.

For my $.02 the frame swapping is easier because it all happens at once especially if it's all "prepped" cleaned-painted-tweaked and so forth before you stick your earlier Sheet Metal on it.

FBp

 

Thanks for the replies John and FBPete.

We are going to pick up the 79 on Sunday and will evaluate the frame to see if it is in good condition and if the body swap is the best route. This is my brother in laws truck project now, so he will make the call on that.

On my 65 I will be using the 65 frame and changing the suspension, steering etc from the first donor truck. It had a bad frame so I could not do the body swap.

I looked at the bed gap this morning and it is already about 1" wide. I think adding about 3/4 to 1" won't make it stick out too much (and it will be easier to get the boots in there).

If we do the body swap on my brother in laws truck, then after removing the 79 body I will suggest that we go through the suspension, steering, brakes etc. to make sure it is right. We will also install his 351/C6.

This may be a good time to document the different appraoches Pro/con of each. I will try to take pictures. Let me know if anyone wants pictures of anything in particular.

Chris

 

I'm just finishing up my swap. 66 2wd body to a 79 4x4 chassis. Cab was easy except for using a generic poly body mounting kit. Bed was a little tricky. Didn't want it to look like a hack job, or look awkward. Took out all tanks, relocated leafs springs three inches forward with grade nine bolts. Shortened driveshaft, repositioned the shock mounts. The front of the bed can bolt to the frame using the original bed holes, bit you have to redrill the frame and extend the plate that’s welded there. The rest of it, and the contours don't line up at all if you keep your factory bed/cab gap. I have 12 1/2 carriage bolts now instead of 6 and 2 small bolts. I made all new mounts out of 2x2, and 2x3 thick wall tubing and used original holes except where I added more holes. The 4 I added were where the bed rib contacted the frame but did not have a bolt. Even with the bed slide forward I did not need to trim the frame. It comes right to the end of the bed behind the fiscal panel, but I’ll also be using a roll pan not a bumper. If you use all the 79 upgrades not much bolts up. I wanted to use my column so I cut the spline off the 79, and cut, shortened and rewelded the linkage in 2 other places. The brake booster input rod needed to be extended 1 inch. All the little things eat up a lot of time, especially if you don't want most people to be able to tell it was a frame conversion. It takes time but I’m really happy of my stance, and all my gaps, and looks pretty original, except for the 460 and rims.

 

hppy, I am glad that you posted, I know Pete is a pretty successful fabricator, and is restoring WWII aircraft now.

Some of the issues that you ran into are absolutes that you will see either way. The brake booster/pedal placement is one. You wrote that you (relocated leafs springs three inches forward) that would account for the driveshaft having to be shortened and the shock mounts moved. I had felt that I knew the bed holes would be a concern and had written many times that it was on the dumb end of the truck, meaning no suspension mods would be required. I wonder if there isn't a different way of dealing with the hole issue, not that there is anything wrong with the way that you did it. I think I would have adjusted the mount points beneath the bed and kept the same holes, but that is a personal choice.

It sounds like going from a 2wd to 4wd was pretty straight forward, and you handled it well. IMHO

John

 

HppyDrunk
Were you moving the axle and shock mounts forward to keep the axle centered in the wheelwell and the bed gap at a normal size? Before moving the mount points, was the axle visibly noticeably out of whack?

Thanks
Chris

 

I did keep the stock bed mounting holes. I just added 2 more sets, but there still in line with the 3 original sets. When you look at the bed you see 10 carriage bolts in the original groove instead of the 6. The only new holes I drilled in the bed floor besides the those were the 2 camper special side box bolts. I also added the 1979 fuel doors to the side of my 1966 bed, and had to cut a little of the side out to fit the fuel tube and box in the bed side. I welded the original piece back in at an angle and boxed the sides with new sheet metal. It doesn’t affect using the bed at all. Yes after I set my bed gap I couldn't live with the axle position so marked it and moved it forward 3 inches. The shock mounts and driveshaft were a result of that. There are more little things as well. Brake light switch, go with original pressure or contact style. I went with contact and welded a bracket by the pedal. Gear linkage is off. I also had to figure out the wiring for the dual tanks to my original dash. Hard part was I forgot the grab the harness for the switch from the 79. Believe the temp sending ohms are also different. I will know for sure today after I pick up a new sender for the 66. Bottom line was I wanted all the benefits of the 460, c-6, 4x4, np205 transfer case, trailer special power disc brakes, dual tanks, and power steering, but didn't want take away from my trucks original appearance. My truck was a Camper special, custom cab, 2wd, 352, cruise-0-matic, no power, all drum, single behind seat tank. 1966 looks = Good, 1966 drivability = not so good. If you got any questions about the swap it's all pretty fresh in my mind, lol I should be done Friday. Hoping to get it painted sometime May-June. Original turquoise, and white two tone with the original moldings, emblems and mirrors. I have pictures of my gap and the repositioned axle I can send later when I'm home if you want.
Thanks, TJ

 

Any pictures of the bed gap and the location of the axle would be appreciated TJ.
Chris

 

66spritw53 I couldn't figure out how to send you a pic so I updated my gallery. Seach for a 66 F-250. Mines the one with the picture of the blue 79, and a the title of "The long road". Hope that helps, I have some more picture somewhere around here. I uploaded the gap both sides, and the wheel placement before the relocation.

 

All that you have to do is click on his username and view gallery. It is the only one to see.

John

 

Pictures help alot. Thanks

Chris

 

How do my gaps compare to yours? Would you consider the rear tire out of "whack" that far back in the wheel well?

 

Got the bed on this weekend and did some adjusting. Basically, I would say it works okay to put the 1965 bed on a 1979 frame. However, we ran into a few additional issues not that I did not see mentioned previously.

The hump in the 1979 frame above the rear axle contacts the floor of the 65 bed and actually pushes up on it a little.

The 1979 frame does not have a flat top surface all the way down. Just behind the axle hump, the top of the frame has a section that actually is formed with a lip that extends straight up towards the botton of the bed. We had to cut a 2-3" long piece of the upper lip out because it hit the bed support bracket that runs across the bed just behind the wheelwells. This section of frame kept the bed from setting down on the top rail of the frame. Before we trimmed it off, it held the back of the bed up noticeable.


For some reason we also had to use the larger and longer 1979 bed bolts, as the 1965 bolts seemed a little short and were in pretty poor condition anyway.

We also had to cut out one side of a boxed support bracket right at the end of the 65 bed as the 79 frame hit it and again held the bed up keeping it from setting down on the frame. We drilled a new set of mounting holes in that same area (about 3" in from the end of the bed) so we could use the existing holes in the 79 frame. The bolt heads ended up right in the center of a raised rib, so we should probable put some type of spacer under there to keep the rib from being pulled down.

We split the 3-4" difference in frame length by increasing the the "bed to cab" gap about 1.5" and letting the axle sit a little behind the centerline of the wheel opening. It looks OK.

Bottom line for me -- I will probably stick with the 65 frame next time, just to keep the bed gap closer, the axle centered, and to make the bed mounting easier. However, if you need to replace the frame and want to use a later model truck, it can definitely be done without too much effort.

I will try to start a gallery in the next couple of days to post some pictures we took.

Chris

 

You can always go to your local Ford dealer, and start pricing new trucks if modifying the old one is too tuff for you.

John