I picked mine up Friday from getting work done to it ( reflash update, rear window, u-joint, a/c controls ) and I run the triple dog and they never said anything to me and they did all the work under warrenty.

 

And this means absolutely nothing-Ford can and will void your warranty if you bring it in with a powertrain warranty claim.What you don't know is that they might have flagged your VIN for future powertrain warranty claims.
Ford is not asking any questions on Diesel warranty claims-if there is evidence of an aftermarket device that's changed ANY PCM parameters they will void any warranty immediately-period,no questions,no arguing.
JL

 

Actually I have a little bit more of an edge then most people when it comes to this as I did not sign an arbitration agreement, so in other words I can take it before a judge to have them honor a warranty claim unless they can prove beyond a doubt that my tuner caused the problem. What gives ford the edge in being able to deny claims by just saying a tuner is on there and therefore, it cause the problem is because most people have to go to arbitration to have it settled and I promise you your local ford dealership is on good terms with the people that do arbitration. Arbitration, unlike going before a judge, does not have to abide by law, it merely uses law as a guideline, that is how Ford can handle these type of cases without much fight from us in the long run. I brought quite a bit to the table so I was able to get them to waive that agreement if they had wanted to make a good sale, plus I had done business with the salesman before so he know my reputation for not giving ford grieve on warranty claims. In my case the burden of proof is on Ford to prove that it was the tuner, in arbitration technically speaking it burden is on both parties, but unfortunately, it really rests on the consumer.

 

If getting around signing that "arbitration agreement" makes you feel better about it-more power to you. You still WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT have to prove that the product that you installed did not cause damage.Remember-ALL of the aftermarket manufacturers change the fuel deliver and timing of that delivery and the shift strategies. Ford is only under obligation to repair an UNMODIFIED vehicle-PERIOD. It's just that simple.
JL

 

Actually your wrong, Ford made the claim that the tuner caused the warranty problem, those that make the claim have the burden of proof. They have to prove that the tuner directly caused the problem(as it is currently written in the law) unlike in arbitration they just have to establish it is more likely then not the tuner caused the problem, I have to show that there is an alternative possibility to what they are saying that is it, I don't have to establish beyond a doubt that the tuner didn't do it. To give you a scenerio: Turbo is wasted, I file in small claims to get them to repair it under warranty, they say I had a tuner it changed fueling strategies and thus wasted the turbo. I counter with no, my stock air filter was defective, it allowed too much junk thru and that is what damaged the turbo because of a hole that it had and the fact that I had a tuner is irrelevant because a stock part was defective. Now I have shown an alternative possibility INDEPENDANT of the tuner, which makes it harder for Ford to show that the tuner DIRECTLY caused the problem with the tuner. This is why Ford wants you to sign arbitration agreements because their burder is less and yours is more, because in arbitration the law is a guideline, the person hearing the case doesn't have to go strictly by the law. As to the getting around the arbitration, it makes me feel better that I didn't lose options, I have yet to really stick it to anybody, besides that, ford made more then enough money off of me as it is on this one vehicle as I am religous with my truck service, which has always been done at the same dealership where I bought the truck, so they made more already then one turbo would cost.

 

Like I said-if it makes you feel better,more power to you.
I know how it all works,and the outcome of 99% of the cases when a tuner is involved with a diesel.
JL

 

Your condition for them being obligated to do warranty work though doesn't make since. You said that "Ford is only obligated to repair unmodified vehicles". Based on that then Ford wouldn't HAVE TO repair my a/c because I had a tuner. There has to be a direct correlation to that in order for them to deny claim. Your also confusing burden of proof. In small claims the burden is different then in arbitration, you are right for arbitration, you are not correct in small claims, if that was true then what would be the point of Ford or any other dealership have you sign an arbitration agreement unless they wanted to further limit your possibilities to seek recourse(which they do want to do especially when you have a better chance of winning in small claims then in arbitration). Now in my example Ford could still try to prove the tuner caused the air filter to fail which caused the turbo to fail which would nullify my warranty claim, but Ford still have to prove that it the tuner is what set all of it off and debunk my claim that it was the fact that my stock air filter was defective. The burden of proof is different.

 

DO NOT MANIPULATE MY POSTS-READ AND COMPREHEND THEM.
I've said numerous times - POWERTRAIN WARRANTY. But since you want to go there....I can manipulate AC compressor clutch control via the PCM. Matter of fact-ANY device that is CCRM controlled can be manipulated via tuning. Burden of proof or not-all Ford has to do in small claims is show that the tuner changed the fueling parameters from stock settings,and the trans shift parameters from stock.Their warranty only covers those items in UNMODIFIED form.Your absurd example of the air filter with holes is an obvious attempt at an argument that you cannot win. Any idiot knows that if the air filter is defective and causes a failure of the turbo based on debris entry-that part will be a warrantable item. But,here's the other argument you'll run into-even in small claims.
"People with tuners almost always use an aftermarket air filter that isn't tested by Ford,and it is out suspicion that the claimant swapped it out after the damage. The claimant has deceptively attempted to hide the fact that they used an aftermarket tuning device by flashing the PCM back to it's stock settings. Why wouldn't they have swapped an air filter out to do the same thing"
Arbitration,small claims,etc..it doesn't matter-if you flash the PCM and take it in for service or warranty work after flashing it back to "stock"-it's going to have signs of tampering in the software,and you're gonna have a hard time proving that the tuning didn't cause the problem with a POWERTRAIN component.
JL

 

Well you don't like that example how bout this one then. Ford says your your injectors are bad and you were running a tuner and that caused injector problems, well come to find out you had a defective fuel seperator as well and it was filled with water. Now my fuel seperator at the dealership that I am at says that it isn't physically attached to the powertrain thus not warrantied under that policy(and I would also assume that they would argue that since it isn't physically attached to the powertrain more then likely it wouldn't affect they powertrain as adversely as a tuner would such as injectors, which according to their own manual, that water in fuel could led to injector problems if unresolved and since you have a defective sensor and it didn't let you know that there was water in the fuel), but they deny repair work on the injectors because I was running a tuner, however since I have an extended policy they fix the seperator at the 100 deductible. However, if the water sensor wasn't working properly and thus not doing it's just then that could lead to injector problems as well if it doesn't let you know on the msg center that there was water in there thus it compounds the problem, stock part failer and too my knowledge I don't hear much of tuners causing water fuel seperator failures, if I am wrong on that then let me know. As to your rebuttle to my stock air filter, I still am running the stock air filter, I have not changed that, Ford would have to prove that I put the stock back on, bare in mind, if I just took a filter off and on for the regular checkups, it wouldn't have the usage on it compared to someone that had it in there for the full 30k before replaced(I believe the interval change is 30k) now granted you are right most would run aftermarket parts, but Ford as to prove that in my particular case I did run an aftermarket part. Once again, they have to prove direct relationship, key word direct, all I have to do is show an alternative example(within reason, it has to be a reasonable explanation). Your half right in the burden of proof neglible, that half being for arbitration, it's only a matter of what you can argue, but the proof is heightned as to the level of scrutiny and you can't disgregard that when you have to follow along more rigid legal guidelines as in the cases you have that are seen by a judge. Now if you go into warranty work and you have NO OTHER EXPLANATION that could have caused the turbo(previous example)or injector problems then you are right Ford would more then likely win that one, BUT if there is convincing(which is not the same as beyond a shadow of a doubt) that it could have been an alternative reason that caused the failure, Ford has a harder time to win( I didn't say they couldn't win, but it would just be harder), unless there is a DIRECT correlation to that despite the alternative reason. As to your person reverts the computer back to stock to hide the fact they are running a tuner, my dealerships knows I run a tuner, the only reason I put it to stock is to make sure there isn't any complications with their equipment in diagnosing things(I don't know if they actually cause this problem or not, but I do that just to make sure). The bottom line is, in small claims they have to establish direct connection, if it just rests merely on the fact that you changed the pcm(which you have changed fuel strategies I believe with most tuners out there, I don't see why would one of them alter a/c controls, it would have to directly alter those controls for ford to win easily as you said they would, if that was the case then the one time that I had brought my a/c in to get it replaced they would have denied that claim because that was long after they knew I had a tuner) then they could deny every electronic failure that you have based solely on the fact that you changed your pcm(electronic devices that are controlled by the pcm that is). Your mistaking a necessary condition of the tuner being on there for Ford to deny the claim, as a sufficient condition for Ford to deny the claim.

 

Have never used one but the "smarty" is supposed to mask all trace, as for the bully dog I have had really bad cust. support with them in the past.

 

The SMARTY TUNER is by WWW.MADSELECTRONICS.COM and is a Dodge tuner. It is considered the very best tuner/downloader on the market for the Dodge trucks. So far as I am aware, they dont do the Ford or Chevy engines...