copper core ingnition wires?
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Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Gadsden Purchase
copper core ingnition wires?
Looking for information on the subject i ran across this website...
http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm
What do you think?
Bogus?
Right on the money?
Or what? :)
I've been running a copper ignition wire from my coil to the distributor for about 10 years and would like to run copper wires the rest of the way to the Autolite 45 plugs.
I have a stock Dura Spark system other than the fact it's a Blue Streak module.
Bad idea?
Anybody else do this?
Alvin in AZ
http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm
What do you think?
Bogus?
Right on the money?
Or what? :)
I've been running a copper ignition wire from my coil to the distributor for about 10 years and would like to run copper wires the rest of the way to the Autolite 45 plugs.
I have a stock Dura Spark system other than the fact it's a Blue Streak module.
Bad idea?
Anybody else do this?
Alvin in AZ
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 909
Likes: 9
From: San Luis Obispo, CA
I only had time to do a quick scan of the link, but I will read it in some depth tomorrow when I am a little fresher. I think you need to define what your goals are and also what idea you are referring to: using more solid copper wiring, or using the wiring being pitched. The parts of the article I read do not seem to be too deep in the BS factor - they do make valid points regarding other vendor's claims.
I started on Ford motors with solid spark-plug wiring, so I tend to like that approach. Radios in those days were designed to not be bothered by the radiated noise from solid wires. Modern radios will be noisy. If you can live with a CD-player, then solid wiring is my preference. I have even seen rods that used large-diameter, un-insulated secondary wiring - watch what you touch when the engine is running!
I started on Ford motors with solid spark-plug wiring, so I tend to like that approach. Radios in those days were designed to not be bothered by the radiated noise from solid wires. Modern radios will be noisy. If you can live with a CD-player, then solid wiring is my preference. I have even seen rods that used large-diameter, un-insulated secondary wiring - watch what you touch when the engine is running!
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 909
Likes: 9
From: San Luis Obispo, CA
Longer answer . . .
This article is full of information that anyone considering a departure from stock ignition should think about. I'll list a few highlights:
Ignition mods (& problems with stock systems) can cause further problems with electronic ignition and computers via electromagnetic interference in the same way that they can interfere with your radio. (If you can hear it, so can your computer!) (Even if you do not have a computer, some electronic ignition boxes may be confused by signals from the wiring they "hear", causing them to not work properly.)
Many means of suppressing "noise" also soak up some of your spark energy. Just throwing a lot of un-matched technology on a vehicle may result in a system that is not even as good as the stock system. Working with a system from a single, well-accepted manufacturer is probably more economical and effective, even though the "up-front" cost may seem greater.
Many (most?) secondary wire manufacturer's claims are typical BS. The wilder the claim, the more so. Much of the BS involves use of faulty analogies that seem to make good "common sense". The world of the secondary side of the ignition system is VERY different from the DC electricity that makes up the rest of a vehicle's wiring.
My bottom line: With a breaker-point system, the only electronics to suffer is your radio (& perhaps neighboring vehicles' radios). Solid wiring will go a long way with no failure due to the conductor. This may lead to using wires long after the insulation is leaking away some of your energy, but solid secondary wiring is still a good way to go, but you need to remember that it still needs to be replaced sooner or later.
If you have more electronics, then you need to be more cautious. For stock or reasonable levels of energy beyond stock, the best program is probably to use good-quality stock resistor wiring and replace it on a reasonable schedule. This will probably work as well as, and be cheaper than an extremely expensive set of wires in the long run. For very high energy systems, more expensive wires will be needed to survive and deliver the energy to the spark plugs where you want it.
I have no experience with any of the extreme cases and would invite those who do to contribute their experience to this thread. From a basis of electrical engineering theory, this article did not seem to have any major flaws in logic or theory. The areas that I thought were a little "fuzzy" were that way, I think, in an honest effort to make a point clear without resorting to too much theory.
Final opinion: Many people spend a lot of $$$ on ignition, thinking it will make more horse-power. This is not true. Engines that are operated at very high rpm's, have very high compression ratios or have super- or turbo-charging or nitrous oxide, or other extreme modifications NEED much higher energy ignitions, but if the entire system is not upgraded (including the secondary wires) more problems can be created than solved. Choose a level of system that is a match to the level of the mods on the engine - more than that will be a waste of $$$.
Ignition mods (& problems with stock systems) can cause further problems with electronic ignition and computers via electromagnetic interference in the same way that they can interfere with your radio. (If you can hear it, so can your computer!) (Even if you do not have a computer, some electronic ignition boxes may be confused by signals from the wiring they "hear", causing them to not work properly.)
Many means of suppressing "noise" also soak up some of your spark energy. Just throwing a lot of un-matched technology on a vehicle may result in a system that is not even as good as the stock system. Working with a system from a single, well-accepted manufacturer is probably more economical and effective, even though the "up-front" cost may seem greater.
Many (most?) secondary wire manufacturer's claims are typical BS. The wilder the claim, the more so. Much of the BS involves use of faulty analogies that seem to make good "common sense". The world of the secondary side of the ignition system is VERY different from the DC electricity that makes up the rest of a vehicle's wiring.
My bottom line: With a breaker-point system, the only electronics to suffer is your radio (& perhaps neighboring vehicles' radios). Solid wiring will go a long way with no failure due to the conductor. This may lead to using wires long after the insulation is leaking away some of your energy, but solid secondary wiring is still a good way to go, but you need to remember that it still needs to be replaced sooner or later.
If you have more electronics, then you need to be more cautious. For stock or reasonable levels of energy beyond stock, the best program is probably to use good-quality stock resistor wiring and replace it on a reasonable schedule. This will probably work as well as, and be cheaper than an extremely expensive set of wires in the long run. For very high energy systems, more expensive wires will be needed to survive and deliver the energy to the spark plugs where you want it.
I have no experience with any of the extreme cases and would invite those who do to contribute their experience to this thread. From a basis of electrical engineering theory, this article did not seem to have any major flaws in logic or theory. The areas that I thought were a little "fuzzy" were that way, I think, in an honest effort to make a point clear without resorting to too much theory.
Final opinion: Many people spend a lot of $$$ on ignition, thinking it will make more horse-power. This is not true. Engines that are operated at very high rpm's, have very high compression ratios or have super- or turbo-charging or nitrous oxide, or other extreme modifications NEED much higher energy ignitions, but if the entire system is not upgraded (including the secondary wires) more problems can be created than solved. Choose a level of system that is a match to the level of the mods on the engine - more than that will be a waste of $$$.
!["Beemer Nut"'s Avatar](data:image/svg+xml;utf8,<svg xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2000/svg' viewBox='0 0 50 50'><circle class='avatar-circle-default' fill='%23bc5285' cx='25px' cy='25px' r='20px'></circle><text class='avatar-text-default' x='49%' y='53%' fill='white' text-anchor='middle' alignment-baseline='middle'>"</text></svg>)
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,658
Likes: 4
From: "Islander"
That site reads like a big Magnecore advertisement as their product is the best only and all others are sub standard crap as I read it.
Mallory 8mm solid copper Pro Wire for the 68 414 sparked by Crane's XR 3000 inductive ignition (long spark duration). hell your already screwed running resistor spark plugs why add resistor wire on top of it?
For the MPI computer vehicle (95 Discovery) run Crane's 8.5mm 25 ohm per/ft Firewire, again stuck with resistor plug crap.
Solid copper wires caused EMF problems hence Firewire, trust me I tried.
The old EPA 75 Sun smog machine is old but the scope doesn't lie.
The thing that makes me laugh is a brand X wire will allow for more complete combustion stated by manufacture.
If you have the start of combustion it will burn completely, i've never seen a ignition system or wires that can stop combustion once started.
Gullible buyers out there that manufactures feed on.
Mallory 8mm solid copper Pro Wire for the 68 414 sparked by Crane's XR 3000 inductive ignition (long spark duration). hell your already screwed running resistor spark plugs why add resistor wire on top of it?
For the MPI computer vehicle (95 Discovery) run Crane's 8.5mm 25 ohm per/ft Firewire, again stuck with resistor plug crap.
Solid copper wires caused EMF problems hence Firewire, trust me I tried.
The old EPA 75 Sun smog machine is old but the scope doesn't lie.
The thing that makes me laugh is a brand X wire will allow for more complete combustion stated by manufacture.
If you have the start of combustion it will burn completely, i've never seen a ignition system or wires that can stop combustion once started.
Gullible buyers out there that manufactures feed on.
Last edited by "Beemer Nut"; Apr 7, 2007 at 08:36 PM.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 909
Likes: 9
From: San Luis Obispo, CA
The site IS a Magnecore advertisement, but it does a good job at exposing some of the competitors' wild claims and some of the general issues involved with EMI suppression, especially with modern electronics. I still feel that the BS level of this site was far less than average, but I would not (& did not) say that their wires are necessarily worth the $$$. I have seen may other sites that were 100% BS, with no useful information.
The original questions were:
"What do you think?
Bogus?
Right on the money?
Or what?"
Glad to have more information added to this thread, but would still like to know if anyone has actually run Magnecore wires and what they cost.
The original questions were:
"What do you think?
Bogus?
Right on the money?
Or what?"
Glad to have more information added to this thread, but would still like to know if anyone has actually run Magnecore wires and what they cost.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,658
Likes: 4
From: "Islander"
Magnecores 8.5mm stainless wire wound at 200 turns per/inch for a FE I have seen in the past at $110.
They ran good on a friends 67 289 Stang until a engine fire ate top of motor and hood. Fire was above the wires recommended maximum operating temperature.
They ran good on a friends 67 289 Stang until a engine fire ate top of motor and hood. Fire was above the wires recommended maximum operating temperature.
Thread Starter
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Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,760
Likes: 8
From: Gadsden Purchase
Has anyone ran solid copper wires on a Ford Dura Spark system with Autolite 45's?
I've ran a copper wire coil wire for years, now i'm wondering if the next step's worth anything. :)
Got rid of my mis today with new Bosch stainless steel wrapped wires.
Had already installed new 45's. :)
Tomorrow I've got to cut them at the cap, to length, and reinstall the ends etc.
Alvin in AZ
I've ran a copper wire coil wire for years, now i'm wondering if the next step's worth anything. :)
Got rid of my mis today with new Bosch stainless steel wrapped wires.
Had already installed new 45's. :)
Tomorrow I've got to cut them at the cap, to length, and reinstall the ends etc.
Alvin in AZ
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,574
Likes: 4
From: Golden, CO
I have not checked out the link yet.
I thought one of the reasons for resistor plugs and wire was to reduce impressed voltage in the secondary wires that could cause misfires?
If you are that dead-set on getting every amp to the cylinder, I came across some old Champion F-9Y and UF-11Y plugs at a yard sale. People were selling off their dad's old stockpile of replacement parts.
I thought one of the reasons for resistor plugs and wire was to reduce impressed voltage in the secondary wires that could cause misfires?
If you are that dead-set on getting every amp to the cylinder, I came across some old Champion F-9Y and UF-11Y plugs at a yard sale. People were selling off their dad's old stockpile of replacement parts.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Ohio
I don't know, I guess I'm not a fanatic when it comes to the finite details like this. I feel unless you are a super stock racer who is looking for that last .01 hp, then this high end stuff is pretty useless. I'd like to see a dyno test sometime to prove the actually INCREASE. It's like the Splitfire plug commercials where they get very NON car people to tell how much better there car ran with new plugs. Heck, any new plug will make a car run better if the old ones had 50k miles on them?
I think, even if they made 10 more hp, driving around town you will NEVER know the difference. Weather can make that kind of change, even dyno operators will show you can make that kind of change just in the way the test is run.
I don't know..........I guess I'm a very hard sell, and will take alot more than smoke/mirrors to get my money.
I think, even if they made 10 more hp, driving around town you will NEVER know the difference. Weather can make that kind of change, even dyno operators will show you can make that kind of change just in the way the test is run.
I don't know..........I guess I'm a very hard sell, and will take alot more than smoke/mirrors to get my money.
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Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Gadsden Purchase
Yeah Freight, agreed. :)
Nology wires are another odd ball that sounds interesting but their website isn't quite as interesting reading. :) Nology wires have some sort of grounded(?) covering(?) or shielding(?) that acts like a capacitor and does actually work better than any stock wire. Never seen a price for those suckers anywhere tho. :) So many (?)'s unknowns showing what i mean about not be as interesting reading... interest is in the details IMO.
I just got some Bosch "stainless steel" wire wrapped type and they got rid of my engine miss. My "old" nichrome wire wrapped type had only three wires still reading ~1200 ohms. The others were relying on the carbon core and still letting it miss sometimes.
I'm with you in that getting a spark every-time is what I'm after first, but longevity would be really cool too. So here's my question...
Anyone tried solid wire with a stock Dura-Spark system and lived to tell about it. ;) Are the sales-pitch writers right when they say they won't work?
...seems to me they are referring to the new EFI vehicles not our old in-between type?
Alvin in AZ
Nology wires are another odd ball that sounds interesting but their website isn't quite as interesting reading. :) Nology wires have some sort of grounded(?) covering(?) or shielding(?) that acts like a capacitor and does actually work better than any stock wire. Never seen a price for those suckers anywhere tho. :) So many (?)'s unknowns showing what i mean about not be as interesting reading... interest is in the details IMO.
I just got some Bosch "stainless steel" wire wrapped type and they got rid of my engine miss. My "old" nichrome wire wrapped type had only three wires still reading ~1200 ohms. The others were relying on the carbon core and still letting it miss sometimes.
I'm with you in that getting a spark every-time is what I'm after first, but longevity would be really cool too. So here's my question...
Anyone tried solid wire with a stock Dura-Spark system and lived to tell about it. ;) Are the sales-pitch writers right when they say they won't work?
...seems to me they are referring to the new EFI vehicles not our old in-between type?
Alvin in AZ
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