Injectors
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From: Nothern Indiana
Finally got truck back today. SA was on vacation and turd head didn't know what 2 were replaced. They reflashed it and it seems to be running as good as it was before. I will know more on mileage after a couple tanks of fuel. I couldn't keep old injectors because of core charge. I did buy some on E-bay incase the others decied to go out. 2 injectors were $553.68 from Ford . The flash was free . Tech said he couldn't see why they failed . I'm thinking like CanadaGuy and a fuel stravation issue .
It was below 1/4 tank pulling a trailer when it happen .
I'm going to get it down below 1/4 tank and see if it happens again.
The only thing that has me worried now is that I'm going on Vaction to GA. end of April and will be towing my fiver.
Hope it doesn't happen on the road away from home.
It was below 1/4 tank pulling a trailer when it happen .
I'm going to get it down below 1/4 tank and see if it happens again.
The only thing that has me worried now is that I'm going on Vaction to GA. end of April and will be towing my fiver.
Hope it doesn't happen on the road away from home.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Stuttgart, Ar
Originally Posted by CanadaGuy
Knowing why the injectors failed would help to determine if you should replace them all, or just the 2 of them. In my experience, 2 or more injectors do not fail at the exact same time unless something caused it to happen. I'm not going to get into another "bio-diesel" arguement, but if the 2 failed are on the right bank, especially if they are cylinders 1 and 3, I would strongly suggest looking into a fuel starvation issue.
are
6L PWR---Do you have a fuel pressure gauge??? I just wondered what kind of drop you were seeing at WOT with your FASS and what kind of fuel system you were running.
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Last edited by npccpartsman; Apr 3, 2007 at 08:40 PM.
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Originally Posted by npccpartsman
6L PWR---Do you have a fuel pressure gauge??? I just wondered what kind of drop you were seeing at WOT with your FASS and what kind of fuel system you were running.
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I don't see any drop!! That's even when supporting 225cc Injectors. I haven't run on the track yet, but I know there's been a couple times I've gone longer than a 1/4 mile at WOT and no drop at all. She holds 80 lbs. at full boost. Set for 52 lbs. at idle.
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From: Mexifornia
For Bio and injectors my info came from the University of Missouri; they used to update and post all their data, I specifically remember the data included injector problems on newer diesels; also I actually called Univ. of Idaho in Bosie (I think) after a lot of hassle got to talk to someone who is working theri ongoing bio program; it's also in the web...aside from that I just put my latest batch in my dad's 1991 F250...but anyways I'd like to know about the injector failure and its symptoms.
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From: Nothern Indiana
Originally Posted by bczolone
For Bio and injectors my info came from the University of Missouri; they used to update and post all their data, I specifically remember the data included injector problems on newer diesels; also I actually called Univ. of Idaho in Bosie (I think) after a lot of hassle got to talk to someone who is working theri ongoing bio program; it's also in the web...aside from that I just put my latest batch in my dad's 1991 F250...but anyways I'd like to know about the injector failure and its symptoms.
The tech couldn't say if it was or wasn't and just said it look like all the others they have changed.
I'm thinkling its a low fuel pressure thing and will put it thru the steps when I get the trailer on her again.
Is there a port on the secondary fuel filter to hook a pressure gauge like the 7.3 has ?
I had a pressure gauge on my 7.3 and was a simple install.
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From: Florence,SC
matt, i dont believe that the bio did it. i dont believe it was a fuel starvation issue. i have worked on trucks before, where i replace a couple due to a hot skip, and drive the truck everythings fine, and then the customer goes 20 or 30 miles and truck dies to another injector failing. i quit trying to understand what cause these injectors to fail unless something is staring me right in the face. what is your mileage matt?
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Stuttgart, Ar
Originally Posted by firesoutmatt
If it was from the bio I want to know for sure that it was.
The tech couldn't say if it was or wasn't and just said it look like all the others they have changed.
I'm thinkling its a low fuel pressure thing and will put it thru the steps when I get the trailer on her again.
Is there a port on the secondary fuel filter to hook a pressure gauge like the 7.3 has ?
I had a pressure gauge on my 7.3 and was a simple install.
The tech couldn't say if it was or wasn't and just said it look like all the others they have changed.
I'm thinkling its a low fuel pressure thing and will put it thru the steps when I get the trailer on her again.
Is there a port on the secondary fuel filter to hook a pressure gauge like the 7.3 has ?
I had a pressure gauge on my 7.3 and was a simple install.
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From: Nothern Indiana
Originally Posted by BowTieHatr
matt, i dont believe that the bio did it. i dont believe it was a fuel starvation issue. i have worked on trucks before, where i replace a couple due to a hot skip, and drive the truck everythings fine, and then the customer goes 20 or 30 miles and truck dies to another injector failing. i quit trying to understand what cause these injectors to fail unless something is staring me right in the face. what is your mileage matt?
When this happen I fueled up in the morning and was on my second trip with the trailer pulling hard . Truck wasn't shut off untill this happen and was just below 1/4 tank of fuel. I got it back to my shop and changed fuel filters just to see if they were dirty. They were as clean as the new ones .Drove it home without the trailer and it had the dead pedal when I tried to make the turn onto my street.Shut truck off and tried to start and acted like only a couple cylinders were firing.
Got it started and limped it home.
The next day I filled it up with fuel and it seem to run better after doing this but the miss was still there.
Don't know if it was an air gap after changing filters or a low fuel problem.
I guess its a wait and see thing . I don't want to have this happen when I'm on vacation .
The general conclusion on the injectors is once they start going bad they end up with more being bad . So do I change the other 6 or wait and see ?
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From: Florence,SC
well i would replace those 2 only. within running bio and the "incosistencies" i would install a fuel pressure gauge to be on the safe side. once pressure drops below 45 and your driving hard, injectors eat themselves up. also are you using racor filters, because i have seen aftermarket filters cause low pressure issues even at idle.
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From: Nothern Indiana
Originally Posted by BowTieHatr
well i would replace those 2 only. within running bio and the "incosistencies" i would install a fuel pressure gauge to be on the safe side. once pressure drops below 45 and your driving hard, injectors eat themselves up. also are you using racor filters, because i have seen aftermarket filters cause low pressure issues even at idle.
I will look into getting a gauge npcc .
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Templeton, Massachussetts
Originally Posted by hott-rodd
check ebay for some good deal, usually around $100 each new in box.
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From: Arizona
matt,
Took this from the "Biodiesel Handling and Use Guidelines"
"B100 freezes at higher temperatures than most conventional diesel fuel and this must be taken into account if handling or using B100. Most B100 starts to cloud at between 35°F and 60°F, so heated fuel lines and tanks may be needed even in moderate climates. As B100 begins to gel, the viscosity also begins to rise, and it rises to levels much higher than most diesel fuel, which can cause increased stress on fuel pumps and fuel injection systems. Cold weather properties are the biggest reason many people use biodiesel blends.
http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels...pdfs/40555.pdf
Here is a link to a cold weather blending study of Biodiesel
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/r...28_Gen-354.pdf
Just wondering that with the cold temperatures that B100 may be running a little thick causing fuel starvation problems at the injectors, thus leading to premature injector failure, especially with the fuel rails in the 6.0 being a dead end system. I would be curious to know what two injectors failed.
Took this from the "Biodiesel Handling and Use Guidelines"
"B100 freezes at higher temperatures than most conventional diesel fuel and this must be taken into account if handling or using B100. Most B100 starts to cloud at between 35°F and 60°F, so heated fuel lines and tanks may be needed even in moderate climates. As B100 begins to gel, the viscosity also begins to rise, and it rises to levels much higher than most diesel fuel, which can cause increased stress on fuel pumps and fuel injection systems. Cold weather properties are the biggest reason many people use biodiesel blends.
http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels...pdfs/40555.pdf
Here is a link to a cold weather blending study of Biodiesel
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/r...28_Gen-354.pdf
Just wondering that with the cold temperatures that B100 may be running a little thick causing fuel starvation problems at the injectors, thus leading to premature injector failure, especially with the fuel rails in the 6.0 being a dead end system. I would be curious to know what two injectors failed.
Last edited by blackhat620; Apr 5, 2007 at 02:20 AM.
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From: Nothern Indiana
[QUOTE=blackhat620]matt,
Took this from the "Biodiesel Handling and Use Guidelines"
"B100 freezes at higher temperatures than most conventional diesel fuel and this must be taken into account if handling or using B100. Most B100 starts to cloud at between 35°F and 60°F, so heated fuel lines and tanks may be needed even in moderate climates. As B100 begins to gel, the viscosity also begins to rise, and it rises to levels much higher than most diesel fuel, which can cause increased stress on fuel pumps and fuel injection systems. Cold weather properties are the biggest reason many people use biodiesel blends.
www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/npbf/pdfs/40555.pdf
[/QUOTE]
Thats why I use a blend in the winter. I also do the freeze test to make sure .
That's not an issue with my injectors.
Took this from the "Biodiesel Handling and Use Guidelines"
"B100 freezes at higher temperatures than most conventional diesel fuel and this must be taken into account if handling or using B100. Most B100 starts to cloud at between 35°F and 60°F, so heated fuel lines and tanks may be needed even in moderate climates. As B100 begins to gel, the viscosity also begins to rise, and it rises to levels much higher than most diesel fuel, which can cause increased stress on fuel pumps and fuel injection systems. Cold weather properties are the biggest reason many people use biodiesel blends.
www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/npbf/pdfs/40555.pdf
[/QUOTE]
Thats why I use a blend in the winter. I also do the freeze test to make sure .
That's not an issue with my injectors.
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From: Arizona
matt,
Okay, that is good to know, just trying to see if we can possibley pinpoint the problem causing this. I have no problem with the fact that you are running Bio and commend you for your efforts.
It still may be a fuel starvation issue that is not related to fuel type. Since the fuel rails are a dead end system, there have been confirmed tests that the back injectors encounter fuel pressure drops, which can lead to starvation under load. Bowtie had mentioned this also. I know it was also a problem with the 7.3L and there was a fuel line balance kit developed that worked very well. For the 6.0 LIPD has a fuel line balance kit now available to help eliminate the problem also. If i remember correctly the kit is about $100.
Just trying to put some ideas and information out so that hopefully we can pinpoint the cause and all can learn and hopefully improve there trucks and prevent or reduce future injector failures like this from happening.
Okay, that is good to know, just trying to see if we can possibley pinpoint the problem causing this. I have no problem with the fact that you are running Bio and commend you for your efforts.
It still may be a fuel starvation issue that is not related to fuel type. Since the fuel rails are a dead end system, there have been confirmed tests that the back injectors encounter fuel pressure drops, which can lead to starvation under load. Bowtie had mentioned this also. I know it was also a problem with the 7.3L and there was a fuel line balance kit developed that worked very well. For the 6.0 LIPD has a fuel line balance kit now available to help eliminate the problem also. If i remember correctly the kit is about $100.
Just trying to put some ideas and information out so that hopefully we can pinpoint the cause and all can learn and hopefully improve there trucks and prevent or reduce future injector failures like this from happening.