I don't like these things! :-)

I've been going through about one a year. they work fine for a long time and then I start having to turn the key 2 or 3 times to get it to kick into the ring gear and then 5 or 6 times annd then 10 or 15 times until one day it seems to not kick in at all except occasionally.

I've posted about this thing a year or so about this thing and read a tond of threads an having no luck. I've done just about everything I know of doing to stop this. Doesn't matter if the battery is old or new and the starter never completely stops tunrning, just won't engage.

I don't think the RG is bad but I can't see it so will have to wait till I get another starter to check it out. I've looked in the opening with the starter out and it looks fine to me. If I put a new starter in it works fine for a yar or so so if the RG was bad I think I'd see this sometimes with a new starter.

Most say it's a grounding issue but I've direct wired the case of the starter to the battery and that hasn't helped at all. I've checked voltge drop, no problem, got a new battery, voltage reg is a couple of years old, ignition switch is new, alternator is new, it's tuned up, hell I'me clueless. Even putting new tires and wheels on it didn't help. LOL

My personal opinion is this is the nightmare issue for these trucks. Why put something in a vehicle that is so sensitive to electrical problems. I think I would prefer a big fat bendix type starter than these things.

 

Question, where are you buying the starters, which I assume are "rebuilt?"

Agents working for rebuilders buy starters by the gross from wrecking yards. They are taken in hand, checked over, the bendix is replaced...if necessary. To clean the starter internals, which are rarely taken apart, they are immersed in a bath of solvent. When dry, they are painted (in some cases) and into boxes they go, and are sold to various parts houses. Retail prices can be as low as $15.99.


Most starters and alternators sold by the fly by night outfits, and some national chains are crap, and the retail prices reflect the quality.

 

Advance Auto

The one dying in there now was new

The others were rebuilt

I thought the same thing before buying the new one

I'm going to throw something in here that I forgot yesterday. Don't know how I forgot it since it's crazy. :-)

I was stumped so I got out a socket and turned the crank shaft a bit. Started fine a couple of times. Starter started it's spinning thing again. Turned the crank shaft again. Started fine a couple of times. Starter started it's spinning thing again. Turned the crank shaft again.

This didn't work every time but often enough to be curious.

This would certainly make one think that it's a tooth and gear issue but the increasing frequency of the issue with age of the starter would discount that, no? I don't recall seeing any wear issues on the starter gear although I'll look a lot closer this time.

Man, I have just got to get rid of my full time job. It's eating into the work time on my truck. :-)

 

i have a 351m and when i got it, you could turn the key and it would sound like the starter wasnt even connected to the motor, then it could clank and turn the motor a few times then spin, then crank and would finally turn the motor over far enough to bust off. got a starter from oreillys and so far its been ok, think it was new b/c it has that warranty paper with it. at first i thought my flywheel was gone, thinking it was slipping on the flywheel, but that starter engagement arm was fubar or somthing. you might hafta invest in one of those high end high torque starters and new flywheel to be safe, it might be cheaper in the long run on your wallet and peace of mind if you really enjoy driving your truck.

 

Thanks, I'll look into that. I'd rather spend the money for a good part when the cheaper ones will leave me stranded. :-)

Why the heck didn't Ford put a pull cord on these 460s? LOL

 

i hear ya man, i have a 460/c6 that i am working on putting into my 79 f150 4x4. and i am most definetly gonna get one of those fancy high torque starters (i believe they are made for really high comp. motors) the only thing i still dont know if i am gonna put the c6 in also because my 4x4 is 4spd and i gotta have that shaft since the c6 is a 2wd. maybe you will finally catch a break. dont feel bad, the people who manufactured those starters uve been using prolly drive chebbies so they know they dont need to be that stout!!!!

 

It appears the starter on there now has a lifetime replacement warranty. If I pull this one and both gears look good at least I know there's one up the street for free (well, minus my rolling around under the truck :-)).

This c6 has got to come out of there for replacement reall soon so I'll have the opportunity to replace the RG if necessary.

When I get the exhaust system changed out I'm going to request they put a big bend in the pipe around the starter. :-)

 

I rarely have issues with the ford starters. When I have had to replace I think the key is to make sure you get a good replacement.

 

I don't know the history on ur truck.. but i developed this problem when i swapped in a np435 in behind my 351M have to coast start it now.. b/c i can't figure out what's wrong.. but it does work for a while if i but a new starter in it... I'm not sure if the modified is suppose to have one.. but i noticed after i did the swap that my 460 truck with the np435 had a 1/4 inch spacer plate between tranny and engine... i'm wondering if the modified is suppose to have the same thing.. same bellhousing bolt pattern...

 

Not sure this is the problem but it might be.

I just pulled the starter and I measured:
- the gap between the dust cover on the front of the transmission housing to the face or the ring gear
- the distance from where the starter fits against the dust cover to the center of the starter gear with this gear fully extended

I can't find my small metal rule but the measurements look like this (hope what you see is what I type:

---------- (SG)
------- (RG)

It looks like at full extension there should be enough integration surface to work. However there is some wear-off on the tips of both gears.

If full extension isn't what the starter is built to do then it mayy be that the teeth are being worn off and that's why it's doing what it's doing. That doesn't explain full why a new starter works exactly. I would think in proper design the two gears should mesh full across the full width of the RG.

If this starter doesn't engage the RG correctly then this starter is not correct for this engine/transmission or something about the truck is built incorrectly although workable.

Has anyone run into this and kow of a starter that will fit that will cause the gears to mesh fully? I can't change the RG right now. :-(

 

If there is a 1/4 inch spacer between my 460 and C6 this would create the mesh deficiency mine has. GCFISHER75

If I had a starter that would extend farther that might fix my problem. Maybe it isn't eletrical after all.

 

The post with the title "A couple starter/flywheel questions...." sure looks like my problem except if I shim 1/4" on mine the teeth won't mess at all because that will pus the starter out even further. :-) I need a starter with a longer nose I think.

 

That's correct .

I don't remember seeing any spacers/washers on Ford starters.

Header's cook starter's all the time. If you have headers you need a heat shield for the starter.

I made a post about starters in the old Tips & Tricks thread.... that has been removed for some reason.

What are the numbers on the case of your starter Dave ?

 

It's a P3152 reman by Palladium (Advance Auto)

They gave me a new one because the old one had lost the bearing for the shaft on the nose end. So that could explain some of this.

But I measure the extension of the starter gear like it would be when pushed into mesh with the RG. It' s 3/4" from dust cover contact face. The center of the RG is 7/8" from the dust cover face.

So it looks like fully extended I'm getting msyn 1/8" to 1/4" of mesh. I need about a 1/4" to 1/2" more extension to get a full mesh between the two gears.

So something is out of whack. AA claims this is the right part number for this vehicle/engine/transmission. The motor stampings seem to indicate this engine came out of a Lincoln. We pulled a Lincoln starter and it dind't match bolt holes and had the same extension distance.

Can't find my stampings list right now. :-(

I guess I'll hav to wait till I pull the tranny for replacement to know if there is a spacer of some kind in there. If this is the right starter I guess it will have to be something like that.

Going out to install this one. I'll let y'all know what happens (if it doesn't kill me LOL)

 

Dennis we will leave this thread here and not move it to GAD.