46 with 40 frontend
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Junior User
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: NC
46 with 40 frontend
Has anyone done this? I have a nice 46 frame and cab. Is it possible to mount the 40 frontend on the 46 frame and look right? I know the cabs are pretty much the same. Just doing some pondering. The 40 frames are quite a bit narrower though is why I ask.
Thanks
Thanks
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Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Charleston Illinois
I no longer have my 46 frame, so I can't take measurements or anything, but I think you could make this work. If you use all of the innner fenders and crossmember from the 40 you can probably get this to work. The inner fenders on the 40 mount to the frame rails while the 46 inner fenders hang from the core suppport. So the width issue might make it more difficult than it seems. I'd put the doghouse together and try to set it over the frame, just to see where everything falls. It could be that all it needs is just a little trimming, but you might end up having to manufacture new inner fenders or a new mounting system.
The wheel width isn't different, or it least it isn't much different (someone else can correct me on that if I'm wrong) so it all depends on if you can get the metal to hang around the bigger frame.
Since you already have the stuff, try it out. You can always give up and find the correct frame if it doesn't work.
The wheel width isn't different, or it least it isn't much different (someone else can correct me on that if I'm wrong) so it all depends on if you can get the metal to hang around the bigger frame.
Since you already have the stuff, try it out. You can always give up and find the correct frame if it doesn't work.
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From: Minnesota
How wide is the front of a '40? My '46 is about 32" (outside of the frame rails) at the front and 34" at the back. Is it possible that the '40 is only narrower in the rear? They both had the same need for clearence for the motor, but the '40 had a narrower bed, right?
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From: Charleston Illinois
The very front of my 40 frame (where the core support would mount) is 28 1/2 outside to outside. Or somewhere around there, it's kind of hard to measure around everything. I couldn't get an acurate measurement where the inner fenders mount, but if M998 needs them I can try again.
It looks like there might be quite a bit of trouble getting those inner fenders to mount up nicely. Still, that's only a couple of inches on both sides. You might be able to move the inner fender mounts to the inside of the rails to compensate for the difference. You'd have to cut them carefully around the frame rails, but it might work.
The bumper brackets might also move to the inner side of the frame, but I would guess that they would need some custom fabrication.
M998, if you decide to give this a go, let us know how much trouble it was.
It looks like there might be quite a bit of trouble getting those inner fenders to mount up nicely. Still, that's only a couple of inches on both sides. You might be able to move the inner fender mounts to the inside of the rails to compensate for the difference. You'd have to cut them carefully around the frame rails, but it might work.
The bumper brackets might also move to the inner side of the frame, but I would guess that they would need some custom fabrication.
M998, if you decide to give this a go, let us know how much trouble it was.
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From: Minnesota
Yeah, a couple of inches per side doesn't sound too bad. It would definately need some fitting though to figure it all out. I am surprised that the fronts are that different though. I figured that with the cabs being the same, the frame forward of the cab would likely be the same. I just ran out to look at the '46 frame again. It narrows just in front of the cab to the 32" -- so I suppose the '40 could just get smaller there (Does it get smaller again in the back for the box (just curious)? The frame rail is 2 1/4" wide so going on the inside of the frame rail would get the inner fenders closer, but they would still be 1/2" too close on each side (but that might be easy to work with). This would also require adding to the inside of the frame rail to mount the inner fenders to (maybe just box the front part of the frame). Is it possible to put a good 90 deg bend on the bottom of the '40 inner fender, you could then mount it to the top of the frame rail?
Good luck.
Good luck.
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From: Charleston Illinois
I hadn't even thought about bending them for the top of the frame rails. If you could find someone with a good brake, and get the bend in just the right place, That would probably be the best way to fit them up.
The frame is 44 inches wide at the back of the cab, and 42 1/2 at the rear bumper brackets. I think the 46 frame is a lot straighter. I don't remember it curving in anywhere. I think the back of the frames would be the same. I imagine it just gets narrower in the front for the 39-41 frame.
Let us know if it fits up, and how you overcame the width difference.
The frame is 44 inches wide at the back of the cab, and 42 1/2 at the rear bumper brackets. I think the 46 frame is a lot straighter. I don't remember it curving in anywhere. I think the back of the frames would be the same. I imagine it just gets narrower in the front for the 39-41 frame.
Let us know if it fits up, and how you overcame the width difference.
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From: Minnesota
Fix, is that a typo (44 and 42 1/2)? I am assuming 34 and 32 1/2" for those measures? The '46 is fairly straight, from the rear bumper brackets to the front of the cab its 34", then it curves in a little to become 32" just in front of the cab to the front bumper brackets.
As far as bending the inner fenders it was more or less my brain babbling on again. I assume it would be a little harder than just putting it in a brake and bending. At least for the '46 inners there is enough 3d that doing something like that would be hard, or at least thats my impression of what the inners looked like, its only been 6 months and I can't remember what they look like.
It will be interesting to see how this works out, of course M998 should not have too much of a problem making it work (all he has to do is remember that "parts is parts when you own a welder" :-)
As far as bending the inner fenders it was more or less my brain babbling on again. I assume it would be a little harder than just putting it in a brake and bending. At least for the '46 inners there is enough 3d that doing something like that would be hard, or at least thats my impression of what the inners looked like, its only been 6 months and I can't remember what they look like.
It will be interesting to see how this works out, of course M998 should not have too much of a problem making it work (all he has to do is remember that "parts is parts when you own a welder" :-)
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From: Oakdale,Ca.
I know this topic has come up before...maybe with a diferent year model...but trying to use the 40/41 front end on the 42-47 frames...talk seemed to center around the fitment and placement at the front.
I'll see if I can find the old thread
I'll see if I can find the old thread
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From: Charleston Illinois
Originally Posted by soule46
Fix, is that a typo (44 and 42 1/2)? I am assuming 34 and 32 1/2" for those measures? The '46 is fairly straight, from the rear bumper brackets to the front of the cab its 34", then it curves in a little to become 32" just in front of the cab to the front bumper brackets.
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From: Oakdale,Ca.
I wasn't able to find the thread I wanted, but came across a few others...one poster metioned the extar width of the later frame and that it was also loner in the front and could cause problems.
Would assume the later frame could be trimmed, but wonder a bout the width issue and if just adjusting the inner panels would be the solutin, or if more is actually needed?
Would assume the later frame could be trimmed, but wonder a bout the width issue and if just adjusting the inner panels would be the solutin, or if more is actually needed?
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From: Oakdale,Ca.
Originally Posted by Fix
No typo, My 41 frame measures 44 inches wide between the cab and bed, and 42 1/2 at the rear of the frame. I wish I still had the 46 frame to measure. I now the cab mounts are identical, but it doesn't seem like the rest of the frame would have changed that much.
I think cars frm 35-40 wre the same, and trucks 35-41 were the same...
If so, your '41 frame pinches in starting from the back of the cab...like my '36 does...I'll have t take a look at my '42 and see if there's any big dofferences..
Man, wish I had a bigger shop to put al my stuff side by side...actually, I have enouh room to do it,, but I'm the "Son" in Sanford and Son
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From: Minnesota
Wow, maybe I mismeasured the '46? If the '41 is 44" wide at the cab and the '46 is 34" wide then there is a foot difference at the cab between the '41 and the '46? Just so that we are on the same page I am measuring the frame rails not the cab mounts which stick out past the frame rails. In fact thinking about it I believe my measures are right for the '46 -- I don't think that there was a 7" change on each side between the frame at the cab and the front section. But I will remeasure tonight just to make sure.
Mike -- thats funny -- I am beginning to believe that about myself right now (except that they had a really nice looking truck). A couple of weekends ago I had to finish ripping my frame apart so that I could get my commuter in the garage to do some repairs. Last fall I built a 10'x10' shed. My plan was to put a bunch of the body parts (everything but the cab) in, the kids' bikes, lawnmower ect. After picking up the second body last fall, it turns out that the only thing that really fit was the body parts :-( So I have engine parts and axels and trannys all over my garage.
Mike -- thats funny -- I am beginning to believe that about myself right now (except that they had a really nice looking truck). A couple of weekends ago I had to finish ripping my frame apart so that I could get my commuter in the garage to do some repairs. Last fall I built a 10'x10' shed. My plan was to put a bunch of the body parts (everything but the cab) in, the kids' bikes, lawnmower ect. After picking up the second body last fall, it turns out that the only thing that really fit was the body parts :-( So I have engine parts and axels and trannys all over my garage.
Postmaster
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From: Oakdale,Ca.
Lol...send me your email addy, and I'll send you a pic of what your shop should NOT lo0k like
I'm slowly clearing soem space though, selling stuff here and there to make some room. One of my problems is I hate to have things sit outside in the weather..so I drag things inside to "save" them, and wind up stepping over them daily.
And to think last Novemeber I had 4 autos in my shop...and now I can barely get around the '36.
I'm slowly clearing soem space though, selling stuff here and there to make some room. One of my problems is I hate to have things sit outside in the weather..so I drag things inside to "save" them, and wind up stepping over them daily.
And to think last Novemeber I had 4 autos in my shop...and now I can barely get around the '36.
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From: Charleston Illinois
I tried to put this on my web page, but apparently it has been removed. Since it was free space provided by my college I can't really complain, but now I have to find some space elsewhere.
http://www.wescottsauto.com/pdf2/FR-6.pdf
This link has the specs for the 40 frame. They also have specs for other frames, but no 46 trucks. I was hoping that I would be able to compare them from my office chair. I sure am gettin' lazier lately.
http://www.wescottsauto.com/pdf2/FR-6.pdf
This link has the specs for the 40 frame. They also have specs for other frames, but no 46 trucks. I was hoping that I would be able to compare them from my office chair. I sure am gettin' lazier lately.
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From: Minnesota
Fix, that is a good diagram. That does show that the frame is 44" under the cab. I am completely surprised at those dimensions. I remeasured my '46 and sure enough it is 34" under the cab. So the '40 frame has the frame rail pushed out 5" on each side under the cab. I din't think there was that much room -- guess I am going to have to go through all of my old picts to see what it looked like.
It does also look like a problem for M998 with the inner fenders might be the tapered shape of the front part of the frame. If the '40 inner fenders follow the frame rail, it will be harder to fit on the '46 since it is straight at the front.
It does also look like a problem for M998 with the inner fenders might be the tapered shape of the front part of the frame. If the '40 inner fenders follow the frame rail, it will be harder to fit on the '46 since it is straight at the front.