239 rehab: 3 cyl, 3 diff problems
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 19
From: scotia. NY 12302
239 rehab: 3 cyl, 3 diff problems
we are sorting out my flathead after 22 years in storage. we had 85-90 lbs in 5,6,7,8. we had 80lbs in 1, 30 in 2, 0 in 3 and 30 in 4. we took off the head and here's the story. cyl 2, burned valves, cyl 3 stuck exhaust valve (got that mostly freed up, will keep working on it) and a blown piston in #4. we are consulting with a more knowledgeable guy to see if we can just pop in another piston and rings in #4. the cyl has a vertical ridge at top. honable? we can always hope. it actually sounded pretty good for running on 5 cyl but it had a definite shortage of power. we were hoping to do a low budget repair if that's not poss, may have to reassess choices. thanks for listening. dick r.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,294
Likes: 1,055
From: NM
What do you mean by "blown"? is there a hole in it? Likely detonation from an incorrect timing setting.
What size are the pistons/cylinders? I'd bet there are plenty of folks with good used flattie pistons on here and around other forums who can set you up. What year is this engine?
By all means ream that ridge off and pop in a good piston and rod. How are the bearings? Were the crankcase and valve chest full of goo?
What size are the pistons/cylinders? I'd bet there are plenty of folks with good used flattie pistons on here and around other forums who can set you up. What year is this engine?
By all means ream that ridge off and pop in a good piston and rod. How are the bearings? Were the crankcase and valve chest full of goo?
Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,776
Likes: 553
From: Kalispell, MT
I'm confused - you said it has a vertical ridge? Broken ring cutting a groove? Or normal wear creating a ridge at the top of the cylinder? If that's the case, like Ross said, hit it with a ridge reamer, swap in a replacement piston and try it. Couple of new valves in #2, loosen up all the valve stems with special attention to #3 and I'll bet all of them come up a few points as the rings loosen up.
Marvel Mystery Oil, PBlaster, Diesel, etc would all help with the above. I'd even try a little carb and throttle plate cleaner on the #3 exhaust valve stem.
Marvel Mystery Oil, PBlaster, Diesel, etc would all help with the above. I'd even try a little carb and throttle plate cleaner on the #3 exhaust valve stem.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,423
Likes: 0
From: Colonsay Sk. Canada
Mine was sitting outside for 20-30yrs before I got it just last wek I did compression with a little bit of oil.
2-110
4-75
2-60
Since then it ran for about 7 sec. the carb was bad now just waiting for parts to arrive.
Sounds decent thouh glad to hear you're workin on old cast yet.
2-110
4-75
2-60
Since then it ran for about 7 sec. the carb was bad now just waiting for parts to arrive.
Sounds decent thouh glad to hear you're workin on old cast yet.
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 19
From: scotia. NY 12302
wow, you guys are quick. we actually don't have the piston out yet or the intake off. there is a chunk missing on the top of the piston, near the edge. probably a broken ring too, ridge is vertical (like by a broken ring) goes from top down about 1" down cyl wall. we haven't had a good look at it yet, its in #4 cyl at about 5 oclock position, looking down, battery case in the way. we'll get out a mirror and take a look. we have been doing the pb blaster on the stuck valve from above and it moves, just won't rotate yet. we'll pull the intake and clean it up and do the burned valves just for practice if nothing else. thanks for all your help, we don't have much experience with this stuff, it's been a great learning experience. thanks, dick r.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,294
Likes: 1,055
From: NM
My experience is like MTFlat's, carb cleaner or even lacquer thinner work much better on the varnish on valve stems than penetrating oil. You have to dissolve the varnish, and penetrating oil might take a month to do that, if ever. Better yet, take the guide, valve, and lifter out and soak them.
I thought you meant it had a "normal" wear ridge; a scratch in the cyliner is a little different game. The big question will be, how deep?
I thought you meant it had a "normal" wear ridge; a scratch in the cyliner is a little different game. The big question will be, how deep?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,776
Likes: 553
From: Kalispell, MT
They're simple engines - nothing rocket science about them and common sense goes a long way. Have fun with the project.
If it is just a scratch down 1" you might get by with honing. With 3 3/4" stroke it's still way above the lowest oil ring (for you OHV guys, flathead pistons have 4 rings, the last one is way down toward the skirt). Worst case is machining to accept a sleeve in that cylinder so you can come up to whatever bore the rest of the cylinders are. Sleeving can be done by any engine shop. Some flatheads even came from the factory with sleeves (late 30's and early 40's)
Look closely and make sure it isn't a crack. Even if it turns out to be a crack, it's repairable in that location. Was the broken piece still in the cylinder or did it pulverize and go out the exhaust? Amazing engines.....you'll get hooked! Whatever you need, just ask.
Tim
If it is just a scratch down 1" you might get by with honing. With 3 3/4" stroke it's still way above the lowest oil ring (for you OHV guys, flathead pistons have 4 rings, the last one is way down toward the skirt). Worst case is machining to accept a sleeve in that cylinder so you can come up to whatever bore the rest of the cylinders are. Sleeving can be done by any engine shop. Some flatheads even came from the factory with sleeves (late 30's and early 40's)
Look closely and make sure it isn't a crack. Even if it turns out to be a crack, it's repairable in that location. Was the broken piece still in the cylinder or did it pulverize and go out the exhaust? Amazing engines.....you'll get hooked! Whatever you need, just ask.
Tim
Last edited by mtflat; Feb 5, 2007 at 07:22 PM.
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Roast em' if you got 'em
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,997
Likes: 9,886
From: Rio Rancho, NM
Its been my experiences with Fords that you can't kill them. They'll run forever, they may not run fast or smooth but they will run forever. They will take some abuse that would kill a GM engine several times over.
A ridge reamer for horizontal ridges, for a vertical ridge I think I'd take a small file and carefully file it down flush then hit the cylinder ball hone, etc. Slap a piston in it and go.
I once had a 360ci Ford that had a cylinder rusted up. I ended up pulling the one head off and cleanign the cyl the best I could. Then I wrapped a chain around the engine, place a bloxk of wood and a hydraulic jack on the piston and "jacked" it free. After cleanign the rest of the cylinder with a ball hone I cleaned it all up andput it back together (I was so brake back then I reused the head gasket)
I drove that truck for 5 more years without any problems.
Worst case scenario is that you will have to overhaul it at some point.
No guts, no glory
Bobby
A ridge reamer for horizontal ridges, for a vertical ridge I think I'd take a small file and carefully file it down flush then hit the cylinder ball hone, etc. Slap a piston in it and go.
I once had a 360ci Ford that had a cylinder rusted up. I ended up pulling the one head off and cleanign the cyl the best I could. Then I wrapped a chain around the engine, place a bloxk of wood and a hydraulic jack on the piston and "jacked" it free. After cleanign the rest of the cylinder with a ball hone I cleaned it all up andput it back together (I was so brake back then I reused the head gasket)
I drove that truck for 5 more years without any problems.
Worst case scenario is that you will have to overhaul it at some point.
No guts, no glory
Bobby
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,423
Likes: 0
From: Colonsay Sk. Canada
You just gotta decide what you expect from the motor, why not spend a grand (if you got it) and get new bearings seals all that fun stuff, it's already out.
Just throwin it out there because in the end it is worth it.
Just throwin it out there because in the end it is worth it.
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 19
From: scotia. NY 12302
thanks again guys. all opinions are wecomed and appreciated. my brother in law is the main wrench and i'm the parts cleaner and gopher. how far we will go will depend somewhat on his time and interest. we will consult with a friend about the scrape in the cyl to see if its salvagable without sleeving. pull the pan and intake and see what we have. the engine was rebuilt for me in 1977 by a local ford guy. it has 8ba heads with a mercury crank (stroke seems to measure 4"). i think that means we need a mercury piston, rod? if we get to that point. whatever, i'll be checking with fte boys for poss purchase. if it needs total rebuild, i'll have to decide whether to bite the bullet (or the block) or sell the whole truck as a fixer. it's been a great education hanging out here. we would not have had much of an idea where to start without FTE. dick r.