More Biodiesel Lessons Learned
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Ladner, British Columbia
Why not just go to straight petro diesel during the cold weather and then use B100 in the warm weather? You'll get the same economics.[/QUOTE]
From what I have experienced even 5% Biodiesel helps on reducing smoke, letting the truck run quieter and I am not anticipating any problems around my parts of the world with running B5 yearround. Our station is set up to provide B5, B20, and B40 so it is just a matter of chosing the right pump for me.
I have definetely noticed a start in reduced fuel milage with the B40 so pushing it to B100 does not make much sense in my mind unless I could get more of a discount. Currently the discount is 4.5 cent/liter below regular No. 2 diesel for B40.
Also the milage impact tends to be more severe with the higher blends on the non-turbocharged truck than the turbocharged truck.
Seb......
From what I have experienced even 5% Biodiesel helps on reducing smoke, letting the truck run quieter and I am not anticipating any problems around my parts of the world with running B5 yearround. Our station is set up to provide B5, B20, and B40 so it is just a matter of chosing the right pump for me.
I have definetely noticed a start in reduced fuel milage with the B40 so pushing it to B100 does not make much sense in my mind unless I could get more of a discount. Currently the discount is 4.5 cent/liter below regular No. 2 diesel for B40.
Also the milage impact tends to be more severe with the higher blends on the non-turbocharged truck than the turbocharged truck.
Seb......
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We have been burning 11% soy in our valmet and perkins tractor motors. When the temp got down to 30 degrees, the filter on the barrel plugged with a waxy looking substance. Our supplier stopped carrying soydiesel in November, and still can't get any blends to work well. They say it is the new ultra low sulfur. I have to think it has something to do with water. We were using the hydrosorb filters with corn starch on the barrel. The supplier had us switch to paper. No problems pumping the fuel after that even with the same micron rating. It was taking about 45 minutes to fill a 200 gallon tank! They were recommending filling in the evening to take advantage of warmer fuel temps.
I am not using soy in my '06 F350 because of the problems. Even my 1500 gallon farm fuel tank has sat empty all winter. I want to burn soy because I raise beans. I will wait until mid april to fill. I have been filling everything at the local truck stop.
I am not using soy in my '06 F350 because of the problems. Even my 1500 gallon farm fuel tank has sat empty all winter. I want to burn soy because I raise beans. I will wait until mid april to fill. I have been filling everything at the local truck stop.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Ladner, British Columbia
I am not using soy in my '06 F350 because of the problems. Even my 1500 gallon farm fuel tank has sat empty all winter. I want to burn soy because I raise beans. I will wait until mid april to fill. I have been filling everything at the local truck stop.[/QUOTE]
Thanks 1 Ton,
I am beginning to see that soy bean based biodiesel and cold temperature (below 30 F) don't seem to go together very well.
The place were I buy my biodiesel has an inline blender and what you get in your tank is nice, clean, well mixed stuff. (I took samples) Unfortunately there seems to be some kind of separation reaction if you let the mix temperature drop below 30 F. I had several fiters plug on me with while the temperature dropped down to 20F twice this year and had a complete freeze-up once when I did not get my B40 in one of my tanks diluted early enough. Also straight dilution without some kind of mixing does not seem to work to well.
Seb...
Thanks 1 Ton,
I am beginning to see that soy bean based biodiesel and cold temperature (below 30 F) don't seem to go together very well.
The place were I buy my biodiesel has an inline blender and what you get in your tank is nice, clean, well mixed stuff. (I took samples) Unfortunately there seems to be some kind of separation reaction if you let the mix temperature drop below 30 F. I had several fiters plug on me with while the temperature dropped down to 20F twice this year and had a complete freeze-up once when I did not get my B40 in one of my tanks diluted early enough. Also straight dilution without some kind of mixing does not seem to work to well.
Seb...
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: South Texas Coast
Check out the last post by Fab on this thread
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...b-100-a-2.html
He may have a solution for the gelling problem
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...b-100-a-2.html
He may have a solution for the gelling problem
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Ladner, British Columbia
Originally Posted by Phydeaux88
Check out the last post by Fab on this thread
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...b-100-a-2.html
He may have a solution for the gelling problem
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...b-100-a-2.html
He may have a solution for the gelling problem
I checked out the site and it looks like they are marketing the Technol B100 for use with B100 (soy based) and claim it is good to 30F.
There is no claim for getting to lower temps below 30F if you blend your biodiesel with regular diesel.
I never had problems with B40 until the temperature dropped below 30F so I am not sure whether this stuff would work with blends other than Fabman's experience.
I am not to keen on trying again, I have gone thru a lot of filters to get rid of the margerine I ended up with in my tanks. It also seems to have settled down now that we are back in the high 30's around my parts of the world.
Seb....
Posting Guru
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From: Nothern Indiana
Originally Posted by Hamberger
Thanks,
I checked out the site and it looks like they are marketing the Technol B100 for use with B100 (soy based) and claim it is good to 30F.
There is no claim for getting to lower temps below 30F if you blend your biodiesel with regular diesel.
I never had problems with B40 until the temperature dropped below 30F so I am not sure whether this stuff would work with blends other than Fabman's experience.
I am not to keen on trying again, I have gone thru a lot of filters to get rid of the margerine I ended up with in my tanks. It also seems to have settled down now that we are back in the high 30's around my parts of the world.
Seb....
I checked out the site and it looks like they are marketing the Technol B100 for use with B100 (soy based) and claim it is good to 30F.
There is no claim for getting to lower temps below 30F if you blend your biodiesel with regular diesel.
I never had problems with B40 until the temperature dropped below 30F so I am not sure whether this stuff would work with blends other than Fabman's experience.
I am not to keen on trying again, I have gone thru a lot of filters to get rid of the margerine I ended up with in my tanks. It also seems to have settled down now that we are back in the high 30's around my parts of the world.
Seb....
This is strange to me because It's been getting down below 20 degrees here now and I still havn't had a problem with soy bio diesel . I don't run any additives either. Makes me think it might be a water or diesel problem you may be having ? I run B-40/50 most all winter and B100 summer time. If it does get down around 10 degrees I will fill with straight diesel but only do that to advoid problem but never having any.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Ladner, British Columbia
Originally Posted by firesoutmatt
This is strange to me because It's been getting down below 20 degrees here now and I still havn't had a problem with soy bio diesel . I don't run any additives either. Makes me think it might be a water or diesel problem you may be having ? I run B-40/50 most all winter and B100 summer time. If it does get down around 10 degrees I will fill with straight diesel but only do that to advoid problem but never having any.
I also put a bottle of my B40 into the freezer and at approx. 20F it turned solid.
Seb...
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: South Texas Coast
Originally Posted by Hamberger
Thanks,
I checked out the site and it looks like they are marketing the Technol B100 for use with B100 (soy based) and claim it is good to 30F.
There is no claim for getting to lower temps below 30F if you blend your biodiesel with regular diesel.
I never had problems with B40 until the temperature dropped below 30F so I am not sure whether this stuff would work with blends other than Fabman's experience.
I am not to keen on trying again, I have gone thru a lot of filters to get rid of the margerine I ended up with in my tanks. It also seems to have settled down now that we are back in the high 30's around my parts of the world.
Seb....
I checked out the site and it looks like they are marketing the Technol B100 for use with B100 (soy based) and claim it is good to 30F.
There is no claim for getting to lower temps below 30F if you blend your biodiesel with regular diesel.
I never had problems with B40 until the temperature dropped below 30F so I am not sure whether this stuff would work with blends other than Fabman's experience.
I am not to keen on trying again, I have gone thru a lot of filters to get rid of the margerine I ended up with in my tanks. It also seems to have settled down now that we are back in the high 30's around my parts of the world.
Seb....
The link I posted was to another thread not a web site here is a quote, from Fab, that is on that thread
Originally Posted by fabmandelux
1 gallon of Technol B-100 will treat 750 gallons of B-100. I've been using it on my B-100 this winter with good results. 0 gelling problems so far down to 6 deg!
I haven't finished my "cold" chamber yet, but I'm working on it!
I haven't finished my "cold" chamber yet, but I'm working on it!
If you dont trust it dont fill your tank just put some B40 in a glass jar with some Technol B-100 and leave it outside.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Paradise Found!
I've talked with the tech rep at Technol, and the product is designed for B-100 only. They are working on a product for blended fuels, but the problem has been that different commercial blends react differently.
This seems to be the problem everywhere. There doesn't seem to be any consistent samples of commercial fuels.
It seems to me that the problem may be with Oxidation of the fuel do to water washing, and the incomplete removal of excess water. When I finish my cold test chamber I'm going to try samples of water washed bio, and dry washed bio to see if I can duplicate the problems.
I can see the difference in my samples vs the commercial blends I've tried. No matter how many times I freeze my dry washed samples, I've never gotten any sediment on the bottom of them.
This seems to be the problem everywhere. There doesn't seem to be any consistent samples of commercial fuels.
It seems to me that the problem may be with Oxidation of the fuel do to water washing, and the incomplete removal of excess water. When I finish my cold test chamber I'm going to try samples of water washed bio, and dry washed bio to see if I can duplicate the problems.
I can see the difference in my samples vs the commercial blends I've tried. No matter how many times I freeze my dry washed samples, I've never gotten any sediment on the bottom of them.
Posting Guru
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From: South Texas Coast
Fab
I'd like to suggest a test for your future cold chamber.
Use some commercial blend that has shown a tendency to produce sediment or slime.
divide it onto 4 samples; control (untreated), treatment1 (cleaned with magnesol), treatment2 (dried with PAM*), and treatment4 mechanical treatment for methanol removal. You could also do more samples applying combinations of the 3 traetments.
I think the results would be very informative and possibly useful in developing a decent ASTM standard.
*I hope PAM is the correct acronym.
I'd like to suggest a test for your future cold chamber.
Use some commercial blend that has shown a tendency to produce sediment or slime.
divide it onto 4 samples; control (untreated), treatment1 (cleaned with magnesol), treatment2 (dried with PAM*), and treatment4 mechanical treatment for methanol removal. You could also do more samples applying combinations of the 3 traetments.
I think the results would be very informative and possibly useful in developing a decent ASTM standard.
*I hope PAM is the correct acronym.
Last edited by Phydeaux88; Jan 31, 2007 at 10:47 PM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Paradise Found!
It may be a month or more before I can finish the test chamber, still trying to deal with my dying partner, he needs a lot of care right now. I will do some testing of commercial samples tho, and report the findings here for all to see.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Ladner, British Columbia
Originally Posted by fabmandelux
It may be a month or more before I can finish the test chamber, still trying to deal with my dying partner, he needs a lot of care right now.
Take care.....
Seb...