I have a 77 f100 manual. The old engine was swapped by previous owners to a 460 pulled from an RV. It looks like the bell housing is for a 390 (or 400 block I guess it's the same part?). The ring gear to the flywheel (brand new) has 184 teeth. The current starter is new and that of a 460 manual and slips and kicks out.
I was told I should find a starter that preferably has 2 mounting bolts (not three like that of a 390), or find some bendix to mount to the brand new starter to accomodate this fly wheel.
I haven't looked to see how many teeth are on this starter, but the question remains what starter or what bendix should I look for (how many teeth on the gear have a nice tight fit with the flywheel?

Any suggestions? Thanks for all the help in advance.

Cheers

vin545

 

Well first you need to verify exactly what you have.

The 390 vs the other 2 are completely different animals.

The 460 & 400 share the same bellhousing bolt pattern but beside distributor that's about where it ends.


Post all the casting numbers off the block and heads intake.and we'll see what you have.

Btw, do the spoark plugs look like this
R
\ \ \ \

\ \ \ \
L

or like this

R
/ / \ \

\ \ / /
L

 

Thanks,

The mechanic that installed the ring gear tells me the engine is a 460 while the bell housing a 390/400.
I copied some numbers on the exhaust manifold right below the valve cover :
D3VE-A2A

The numbers on the plate in the engine compartment show :
542 F 14 HNY 48321 24
A 17 4D 21D

On the driver's side door itself :
F14HNFCO435
WD COLOR TYPE BODY TRANS AXLE
117 D F140 AT4 K 42

GVWR
06050 1979 21


On the door Jam there is a sticker that is barely readable and shows :
Jan F14HNY483

I am not certain I got your spark plug alignement correctly but it appeared that facing the passenger I saw : \\\\
facing the drivers side : \\\\

The truck is registered as a '77 4WD and I know for sure that the ring gear has 184 teeth and the bell housing has 2 bolts to the starter.

Thanks for all the help!!

Vin545

 

Hello-

A service manual is the FIRST thing you need to buy for the old truck. Eventually you will need several different kinds.

Your mechanic must not know much about Fords. The 390 and 400 are very different. You might want to find another one that knows old Fords. It is very difficult to pay for work on these old Fords. Mostly it is a do-it-yourself project, hence the need for service manuals, tools, and patience.

The numbers on the data plate and doors will not help with engine identification if the engine has been changed. They might show what WAS there but not what IS there. That is why Mil1ion asked for casting codes off the engine.

Check the Read First: FAQ thread at the top of the 73-9 forum for the following engine ID and other info.


Engine Identification (rev):
======================
351C/M/400 335 series: 8 bolts in rectangular valve covers. Timing chain housing is part of block. Thermostat housing on block. Exhaust bolt holes diagonal.
351M/400 335 series: intake is 12.7" wide the 351C is narrow.
351W/302/5.0L 6 bolts on trapezoidal valve covers. Thermostat housing on intake. Exhaust bolt holes horizontal.
429/460 385 series: 7 bolts in rectangular valve cover
352/360/390/427/428 FE series: Intake goes under valve covers.
-There are other indicators but these are enough to distinguish engine families.

Once we are certain what you have we can get you to the proper engine forum for more help with the starter situation.

 

That truck originally came with a 351M.

Perhaps the bellhousing is actually from a 351M ?

You have a 460 but the bellhousing of 390 will not even be close to fitting as the 390 is part of a different engine family

Tell him the 390 is an FE engine

The 351M that was originally in itis a 335 engine series engine

the 460 is a 385 engine series engine

Look just above the starter for these.
ie: D3VE-6015-AB
and the other date cast numbers ie: *2L23*

That ring gear should have some numbers on it.
Post those.

Any starter for 460 from 1983 on should be okay.

 

There are definitely 7 bolts to the valve cover. I couldn't find any numbers on the ring gear that was pulled off and replaced.

Should I be looking for numbers on the bell housing itself or gear box, or are the numbers you suggest I look for above the starter (which I know doesn't fit right since it eventually wore out the ring gear and has been replaced several times since it kept on wearing the bendix out really fast after a few dozen cranks).

Thank you for your help, it's good to be able to talk to someone that knows about Ford versus the idiot mechanics that I talk to in the area and keep slapping on things that don't work at much expense and frustration.

Regards,

Vin545

 

Transmission/bellhousing

check it against these and find the ident label on the one you have.

http://www.technicalvideos.com/ident...smission.phtml


Engine Block:
You're looking for something like this on the side of the block just above where the starter mounts near the freeze plugs.

 

I hope I was able to read those numbers correctly as they seemed pretty worn, but it looked like :

DIVE6015-A2B

Could also have been :
DIVE5015-A25

I hope this helps,

Thanks,

Vin545

 

It is A2B
Well it is a 460 alright.
I need the other set of numbers to find out what date it was cast but judging by the changeup characters it looks like about last 70's or early 80's.
Please try to Find me the other numbers

 

Thanks,

I will see if I can find those, also how do I verify what size/model bell housing is on this truck so we can match a starter that will fit?

Thanks

Vin545

 

You have to get us the Transmission Code off the tag attached to the transmission.

For just a visual..... see page 2 on this page.

http://www.bmracing.com/media/catalog/6.pdf

 

Look for this on the trans.

 

Dennis,

The Saga continues...Could not find ident on the bell housing, but picked up these numbers on the gear box :

7TA 7003 RB 435
4 4 77 FL I41

also found some more numbers on top of the block : 5E30

and the last set of numbers on the block above the starter appear to be 15 or maybe I5 on its side about an inch away from the previous set of numbers.

I have taken a few pictures and will upload later this evening.

Best Regards,

Vin545

 

6015 is the "Block" designation number.

The block was cast on May 30th in year ending with 5 ....1975 or 1985.

My guess is from the change-up characters ....make it an 85 460.

I need the numbers from the other ID plate.

Look over the whole transmission for these types.

http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl206g.htm


Numberdummy will probably be around to decode those other numbers for you

 

Thanks for the diagrams of the various Bell housing/ transmission patterns. While it seems like mine is more in the shape of the :

Ford C6, 289. 302, 351C, 351W

The distance between the 2 top bolts is 7'' 3/4 indicating that it more likely to be a :

Ford C6, 429, 460, 351M, 400M

Regards,

Vin 545