1952 F-1 215 engine timing procedure
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Junior User
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: Bryan, Texas
1952 F-1 215 engine timing procedure
Howdy all,
I'm new to the board and have recently come to own a 1952 F-1 with the 215 6 cyl. engine in it. It idles beautifully but nearly dies when the accelerator is pressed down. I'm fairly certain that I have a leak in the vaccum line to the distributor but I was also hoping to get some advice on setting the timing and finding out what the correct point gap is.
Also, what is the best method for dialing in the carburetor using common household tools?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Merry Christmas,
A J in Bryan TX
I'm new to the board and have recently come to own a 1952 F-1 with the 215 6 cyl. engine in it. It idles beautifully but nearly dies when the accelerator is pressed down. I'm fairly certain that I have a leak in the vaccum line to the distributor but I was also hoping to get some advice on setting the timing and finding out what the correct point gap is.
Also, what is the best method for dialing in the carburetor using common household tools?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Merry Christmas,
A J in Bryan TX
Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,752
Likes: 538
From: Kalispell, MT
Welcome to FTE and to Ford F1's! I don't have a 215 but I can tell you what the shop manual says......
Initial timing is 2 deg BTC - which would put the pointer right in line with the groove on your harmonic balancer. Distributor advance at WOT is 30 deg with total advance of 32 deg (+/- 1 deg)
Point gap is .024-.026
Dying when you accelerate sounds to me like fuel delivery problems. These trucks, because they've set so long, are notorious for debris and varnish in the tank and fuel lines. Acts like they're out of gas on acceleration - which they are. Delivery can't keep up with demand. Also be suspicious of a deteriorated rubber line section. They can suck air even if they don't leak gas.
I'd recommend new lines from tank to carb and install a plastic inline filter before your pump. And make sure the tank is clean. That should keep you busy for starters. Enjoy!
Tim
Initial timing is 2 deg BTC - which would put the pointer right in line with the groove on your harmonic balancer. Distributor advance at WOT is 30 deg with total advance of 32 deg (+/- 1 deg)
Point gap is .024-.026
Dying when you accelerate sounds to me like fuel delivery problems. These trucks, because they've set so long, are notorious for debris and varnish in the tank and fuel lines. Acts like they're out of gas on acceleration - which they are. Delivery can't keep up with demand. Also be suspicious of a deteriorated rubber line section. They can suck air even if they don't leak gas.
I'd recommend new lines from tank to carb and install a plastic inline filter before your pump. And make sure the tank is clean. That should keep you busy for starters. Enjoy!
Tim
Marmon-Herrington Man
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,978
Likes: 440
From: Central Illinois
I'll add my welcome too! Your problem could also be the accelerator pump in the Holley 1904 carb. I had similar problem where I could idle real well but stumbled when I gave it gas. Bought a Napa rebuild kit, pulled out the Ford shop manual, and found another Holley 1904 shop manual at The Old Car Manual Project (www.tocmp.com). She runs great now.
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Junior User
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 99
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From: Bryan, Texas
Hey guys. I reset the timing and checked the point gap but now the truck backfires and tries to die whenever I accelerate it. I ordered a new carb kit, but isn't backfiring a sign of something wrong with the ignition system? I'm wondering if maybe my condenser is shot and causing the trouble (is that even possible?). Thanks for your help.
A J
A J
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Junior User
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 99
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From: Bryan, Texas
I checked the vacuum advance and it is working as it should and there are now no leaks in the line from the carb. If I turn the distributor plate and put my finger over the end of the tube at the carb it will hold it's place until I remove my finger releasing the vacuum when it then snaps back to normal, which sounds like a non-leaking advance system to me. I also replaced the condenser and points. Unfortunately, I'm still having the problem with accelerating. If I ease into the throttle ever so gently the engine will spin up but if I move just slightly too fast, she coughs and nearly dies. Any other suggestions?
Thanks!
A J
Thanks!
A J
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Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,752
Likes: 538
From: Kalispell, MT
Have you done a compression check? It could be a intake valve sticking open and allowing it to backfire thru the carb.
It still sounds like a fuel issue to me.
Also you'll want to do a very thorough cleaning job on the carb when you put the kit in. All the tiny orifices are critical and if any are plugged with dirt/silt/varnish from the tank, you'll never get it to run right. I've had so many frustrations with carbs that I consider it a cheap investment to just buy a new carb at the start of a truck project.
It still sounds like a fuel issue to me.
Also you'll want to do a very thorough cleaning job on the carb when you put the kit in. All the tiny orifices are critical and if any are plugged with dirt/silt/varnish from the tank, you'll never get it to run right. I've had so many frustrations with carbs that I consider it a cheap investment to just buy a new carb at the start of a truck project.
5th Wheeling
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 35
Likes: 7
Can you help me with this
Welcome to FTE and to Ford F1's! I don't have a 215 but I can tell you what the shop manual says......
Initial timing is 2 deg BTC - which would put the pointer right in line with the groove on your harmonic balancer. Distributor advance at WOT is 30 deg with total advance of 32 deg (+/- 1 deg)
Point gap is .024-.026
Dying when you accelerate sounds to me like fuel delivery problems. These trucks, because they've set so long, are notorious for debris and varnish in the tank and fuel lines. Acts like they're out of gas on acceleration - which they are. Delivery can't keep up with demand. Also be suspicious of a deteriorated rubber line section. They can suck air even if they don't leak gas.
I'd recommend new lines from tank to carb and install a plastic inline filter before your pump. And make sure the tank is clean. That should keep you busy for starters. Enjoy!
Tim
Initial timing is 2 deg BTC - which would put the pointer right in line with the groove on your harmonic balancer. Distributor advance at WOT is 30 deg with total advance of 32 deg (+/- 1 deg)
Point gap is .024-.026
Dying when you accelerate sounds to me like fuel delivery problems. These trucks, because they've set so long, are notorious for debris and varnish in the tank and fuel lines. Acts like they're out of gas on acceleration - which they are. Delivery can't keep up with demand. Also be suspicious of a deteriorated rubber line section. They can suck air even if they don't leak gas.
I'd recommend new lines from tank to carb and install a plastic inline filter before your pump. And make sure the tank is clean. That should keep you busy for starters. Enjoy!
Tim
5th Wheeling
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 35
Likes: 7
do I set my timing with the vacuum hose on or off?
Do I need to have the throttle wide open while setting it or can I set it at idle?
Is 30 degrees past TDC the best for it?
Currently I am putting around with the timing at TDC, it runs, but I feel like it could run better. It also backfires while decelerating.
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,461
Likes: 325
From: Bakersfield, CA
@mtflat
do I set my timing with the vacuum hose on or off?
Correct, initial timing is always set without advance, so the vacuum line to the advance dashpot must be unhooked and the available port must be plugged.
Do I need to have the throttle wide open while setting it or can I set it at idle?
Yes you can set the timing at idle speed, or anywhere near it if you're having trouble keeping the engine running.
Is 30 degrees past TDC the best for it?
I don't know how much advance is added totally, but my similar 223ci (same engine family as 215) is prescribed 3-4º BTDC with the advance dashpot unhooked.
Currently I am putting around with the timing at TDC, it runs, but I feel like it could run better. It also backfires while decelerating.
do I set my timing with the vacuum hose on or off?
Correct, initial timing is always set without advance, so the vacuum line to the advance dashpot must be unhooked and the available port must be plugged.
Do I need to have the throttle wide open while setting it or can I set it at idle?
Yes you can set the timing at idle speed, or anywhere near it if you're having trouble keeping the engine running.
Is 30 degrees past TDC the best for it?
I don't know how much advance is added totally, but my similar 223ci (same engine family as 215) is prescribed 3-4º BTDC with the advance dashpot unhooked.
Currently I am putting around with the timing at TDC, it runs, but I feel like it could run better. It also backfires while decelerating.
5th Wheeling
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 35
Likes: 7
Thank you, @mtflat
you once wrote
"Initial timing is 2 deg BTC - which would put the pointer right in line with the groove on your harmonic balancer. Distributor advance at WOT is 30 deg with total advance of 32 deg (+/- 1 deg)"
So I'm just curious, if I have my timing light on 0 deg, and turn my distributor until the line lines up, I will be at TDC.
then I should set the timing light to just 3-4 deg , and rotate distributor until line lines up. Or should I set the timing light to 30 degrees and rotate distributor until line lines up? And I can do this with engine idling?
you once wrote
"Initial timing is 2 deg BTC - which would put the pointer right in line with the groove on your harmonic balancer. Distributor advance at WOT is 30 deg with total advance of 32 deg (+/- 1 deg)"
So I'm just curious, if I have my timing light on 0 deg, and turn my distributor until the line lines up, I will be at TDC.
then I should set the timing light to just 3-4 deg , and rotate distributor until line lines up. Or should I set the timing light to 30 degrees and rotate distributor until line lines up? And I can do this with engine idling?
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,461
Likes: 325
From: Bakersfield, CA
Thank you, @mtflat
you once wrote
"Initial timing is 2 deg BTC - which would put the pointer right in line with the groove on your harmonic balancer. Distributor advance at WOT is 30 deg with total advance of 32 deg (+/- 1 deg)"
So I'm just curious, if I have my timing light on 0 deg, and turn my distributor until the line lines up, I will be at TDC.
In theory, yes.
then I should set the timing light to just 3-4 deg , and rotate distributor until line lines up. Or should I set the timing light to 30 degrees and rotate distributor until line lines up? And I can do this with engine idling?
Yes if you have a programmable timing light, set it to 3-4º, it shouldn't take much rotation of the dist.
Once you have set the timing and the dist is locked down, if you want to test the advance dashpot, you would then hook up the vacuum line for the advance dashpot and set the timing light to whatever amount of timing you are supposed to have total--which I do not know the value for OR what RPM that value is reached--and set the timing gun for "X" degrees, rev the engine to that specified RPM and check if the marks line up for TDC.
you once wrote
"Initial timing is 2 deg BTC - which would put the pointer right in line with the groove on your harmonic balancer. Distributor advance at WOT is 30 deg with total advance of 32 deg (+/- 1 deg)"
So I'm just curious, if I have my timing light on 0 deg, and turn my distributor until the line lines up, I will be at TDC.
In theory, yes.
then I should set the timing light to just 3-4 deg , and rotate distributor until line lines up. Or should I set the timing light to 30 degrees and rotate distributor until line lines up? And I can do this with engine idling?
Yes if you have a programmable timing light, set it to 3-4º, it shouldn't take much rotation of the dist.
Once you have set the timing and the dist is locked down, if you want to test the advance dashpot, you would then hook up the vacuum line for the advance dashpot and set the timing light to whatever amount of timing you are supposed to have total--which I do not know the value for OR what RPM that value is reached--and set the timing gun for "X" degrees, rev the engine to that specified RPM and check if the marks line up for TDC.
Quite frankly I have never tested the timing for my dashpot, I just ran the truck once initial timing was set.
Typically when the total timing advancement needs to be checked, is mostly for performance motors with special unique cam grinds and fuel curves. Or if you have reason to believe your advancement dashpot is failing.