You are taking this the wrong way I have ford techs do all my work as I am just an oil changer and he isnot saying an thing bad about the techs it is not your fault that either plugs blow out or in later years you can not get them out it is a design flaw in the heads plain and simple of all OHC engines fords design is the only one I have heard of with these problems and you will never make me beleive it is not a design flaw but it is sure not your fault it is fords and they will not own up to any of it including the 6.0 powerstroke and it is now starting to show up in their sales figures and you folks will be the ones to suffer through no fault of yours.

 

Yeah really - you get this crap on all the forums. The problem is that some of the people who really appreciate good/professional advice/feedback seem like the minority sometimes. I'm really thankful to all of you guys who post - please don't let a few troll posts get you down.

 

When I talked to Ford directly, I made sure they knew that the service manager was very kind and respectful, but that his hands were bound behind him at a certain point. I was never disrespectful to anyone and, in fact, have always maintained that I am, and have always been, a Ford man. I regret that Ford has not been able to compete due to executive-level mismanagement. Those missteps include holding on to models for too many years, bad ideas (see the last Cougar and Mark LT), quality issues, and lack of real imagination.

The fact remains that there is a admitted problem with my very expensive FORD and it has not been fixed after numerous trips to the dealer. The problem I have is NOT the cam phasers and is NOT addressed anywhere in that TSB. I want to be a Ford owner for the last 40 years or so of my life but I am finding it harder and harder to see that happening.

BTW, HomerWinzlow, I spent my formative years in Altus (70-79), right near you. I remember growing up thinking of Lawton as the "big city". Greetings, my friend.

 

I hope you can get this worked out soon. Im glad to hear that the dealership has been helping all they can. It is too bad that the extended warranty is not a Ford Premium Care policy because I KNOW my shop would have had you rolling already.

Good to hear from someone who knows the area. I am from Kansas City half my life, and the past 13 years here in Lawton. I settled here for the small town atmosphere... Heh! I was a Nissan tech for 10 years in KC, Army vehicle tech for 7 years which brought me to Lawton, and Ford tech for 11 years.

Hope you get a lot of good from the forum here fellow Okie!

 

I regret that Ford has not been able to compete due to executive-level mismanagement. Those missteps include holding on to models for too many years, bad ideas (see the last Cougar and Mark LT), quality issues, and lack of real imagination.
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I hope you don't get to discouraged. There is bound to be a very difficult problem in one vehicle now and then. If you think ford is mismanaged, then you haven't spent any time in a gm product. Mismanagement and bean counters are a far worse problem there. As for your problem, there are several avenues for you to take. First is to take it to a different dealer. New eyes can be a big change. If you can't get satisfaction then, you can call ford corprate. They tend to be a little more helpful. A regional rep may even come to look at the documents and the truck. Be polite but firm. Anyways, good luck and those are my ideas that I can think of

 

the plug problems lays simply with 2 different metals not being compatable. ever count how many threads on a lawn mower plug? 6. ever count the theads in the older fords with cast iron heads with a tappered seat, 6, even my boats motor has 6 threads on the plug. the problem it's with the metals we now use. any part made out of alum. must have deeper threads to spead the torque load out more. and as any boat tech can tell you steel and alloy just don't mix. try takeing a out board apart after running in salt water. it's darn near impossible with out useing heat.

maybe thats why ford has a tsb for the 5.4 that simply states "when changeing plugs the motor must be warm"

and no man i'm not taking it that way. i'm just plain sick of the belly achers who come in first post this no good ford this and that then we never hear from them any more . i think you know what i really mean

 

I count 4 threads on my 4.6. I guess Ford knows more then everyone else. Between having 4 threads and a stupid taper seat plug design in an aluminum head, they eliminated most of the labor involved in changing plugs. They did this by having the plugs self eject themselves.

It is hard enough to keep taper seat plugs tight in a cast iron head, but the brain trust at Ford decided they would use a steel taper seat plug in a aluminum head, and only use 4 threads, then deny there is a problem.

How many years did they do this before changing the thread count? It was 10 wasn't it?

I am a Ford fan. I bought my first one in 1971, and have owned close to 50 new and used Fords since. But, I will not take up for any company that uses crappy designs and workmanship, and then denies there is a problem.

I will stick up for Ford when they are in the right, but I will tell it as I see it when they are in the wrong.

 

Well that makes 2 of us I am with ya, also no one can tell me why other manufactures with alum. heads don't have this problem???

 

From my experience, most other companies use a 10 to 12 thread count in the aluminum head, plus they use a crush washer design plug.

Would it not be easier for Ford to do this with their heads? It seems to me that a flat surface with a threaded hole is much easier to produce than a threaded hole with a tapered entry that must be machined to the right angle and depth.

I changed plugs in my wifes SantaFe V6 yesterday. The plugs and head had 12 threads and a crush washer. Every plug was exactly the same tightness at 65K miles. With the long reach and crush washer, the recommended torque for each plug is around 20 ft lbs, not the 14 that I have to use in the 4.6 to keep from stripping the threads.

The two times I have tuned up the 4.9 / I-6 in my pickup I have had several plugs loose. I torqued them when I installed them, but they still worked loose. My brother in law had the same thing happen with his 4.9.

Don't get me wrong. I love my old F-150 and the 4.9 engine. I just don't understand Ford sticking with the taper seat plug all these years when that design is known to loosen up. I guess it is a tradition thing, and sort of Ford's trademark. When you see a taper seat plug, you know it goes in a Ford.

 

It was AWFUL engineering on Fords part everything about the top end of the 4.6 and 5.4 engine. I'm not saying its a bad engine.

oh and has anyone worked on the new ford V8 and 4cyl it gets worse it has no wodruf key on crankshaft or camshaft. So for instance if you pull the balancer off to put a front seal in. your screwed and dont even know it until u break every valve in it when you spin the engine over.

 

also it has a different size plug 9/16 i believe that u have to buy a socket for

 

lets look at fords motors of the past. they where all cast iron. alloy when the mod motor came out was new to ford. they used tech from the past that they knew worked then.
yes it took them time to understand that more threads were needed all the way around in alloys, but they are not alone. so did the germans and companies from the far east. alloy tech is just really starting to work properly even thou it's been around since the early 1900's and dropped due to costs of then used smelting techs.

As many of you know i spent 42 years as a tech in both auto and diesel shops. in the dealership and factory ends. and have seen lots that the youger people, have not seen. ever see a vw 5.0l v10 diesel apart? no cylinder liners! the alloy bore is plasma hardend to make the walls as hard as cast iron. at 200k they show little wear in the bores. that tech is also over here now and being used .

lets just be thank full that we can fix what goes wrong with aids of companies like timesert and full torque. then be thank full that we do have a other wise good product. and the aid of this great web site to help every one combat these small problems.

now how about we pray for a better new year with more gains in alloy tech and maybe a full stainless steel spark plug to fit these motors. that alone would help stop the 3 valve problem as proven by marine useage.

 

I understand what you are talking about as far as new alloys and technlogy. The thing I have posted about is stupidity and arrogance. Any moron would know that 4 threads on a long reach plug is too few, even when used in a cast iron head.

The taper seat plug has been working loose for as long as it has been used. That problem should have been caught in pre-production testing, or at most 1-2 years after production.

How about the famous 3.8 head gasket blower. That problem began in 1988 and lasted until 2003. Ignorance or aggorance? Ford made a bad design with the cooling passage being too close to the cylinder, and millions of people had to pay for Ford's aggorance in refusing to change production. Ford made many variations of the 3.8 block, but yet chose to not fix the coolant passage problem.

I have stood back and watched designers and enginers run a company bankrupt because they refused to believe anything they designed could be inferior. All problems were blamed on manufacturing, when anyone with any mechanical inclination could see otherwise.

Ford, and all other manufacturers, suffer from the same mentality. "We didn't design it wrong, you're not driving it right."

 

Do you think if ford went away from a tapered seat plug and used one with a sealing ring it would remedy the problem of not being able to get the plug out from carbon build up on a long reach plug???? I am going to take my 04 in at 30K and have the plugs changed and see what they look like I am getting pretty paranoid with this issue??

 

The long reach plugs in the 5.4/3V engine has plenty of threads, Ford did change that, but they obiviously didn't think about carbon buildup on the long shank of the plug extending through a hole not much bigger than the shank. The seat has nothing to do with that problem.

The heads need to be redesigned, or a much better plug introduced. I can not see how this engine could have been tested in real world conditions and this problem not be seen. I would venture that the problem was encountered, but production was too far along to change, and changing now would be like admitting there is a problem.

As we know, Ford will not admit to a design flaw, as noted in my earlier post. I would assume they are trying to find a spark plug that won't break off, but still not cost much. I hope that a dollar or so extra cost on each plug won't keep a good plug from being created.

No one want's to admit to poor designs. Look at Chevy's piston slappers and Chrysler's transmission problems. Same problems for years, but no total redesign, just band-aids to keep the problems hidden longer.

As I said, everyone has problems, it's how they are handled that counts.