I ran Dyno Sim on the 4x4 build, and got 434 ft-lbs torque @ 2000 RPM, and 432 ft-lbs@3500 RPM. The peak HP is 306@4000 RPM. It may have a few more HP at 4200 RPM, but Dyno Sim only gives data at 500 RPM increments. I used 8.6:1 as the CR, figuring the block was decked 0.020".

If I throw a set of flattops into it instead of the stock dished pistons, I get 9.35:1 CR with the same decking. The Torque is 448 ft-lbs@2000 RPM, and 447 ft-lbs@3500 RPM. The peak HP is 318@4000 RPM, but 317@4500 RPM, so the true peak is around 4200 RPM.

A little porting work on the heads will help a lot. The cam used has too much lift for stock heads. A Comp Cams 265DEH will work about as well as the HR cam used, unless the heads flow better above 0.500 lift.


When I can find a copy of the Hot Rod magazine, I will run the numbers for that build on Dyno Sim as well.

 

Well that Dyno Sim is a bit low on the actual TQ and RPM since it was 461@3300. I think the HP is off as well. A 1 HP drop between 4000 and 4500 is not enough to assume the power was in a downward trend above that rpm. I've seen a few cams with only 8 deg more duration on the intake side peaking in the 52-5500 range. I was expecting at least 350HP @ 4700.

 

This Dyno Sim program usually is a little conservative. The HP data does fall off above 4300 RPM.


RPM Torque HP
3000 426 243
3500 432 287
4000 403 306
4500 354 303
5000 291 277

The problem is not the cam, but the head flow. Put a set of CHI-2V heads on this and it will peak closer to the 5000 RPM range. It will have better low end numbers as well.


RPM Torque HP
3000 435 248
3500 447 298
4000 433 330
4500 401 343
5000 354 337


A set of flattops and better head flow will help a lot. Another area for improvement is the exhaust valve duration. If that is increased to 226 degrees @0.050, the peak HP increases a few hundred RPM.

 

Danlee thanks but those power numbers are right in the range i want to be in. I just want to pull buildings down and not rev to beat hell. Thanks, Dan

 

Spend your money on a set of flattop pistons from TMI, and get a Comp Cams 255DEH cam. The HR is much more expensive and will add little with otherwise stock heads.

Torque = 449 ft-lbs@2000 RPM
HP=315@4000 RPM.

 

I had a very interesting conversation with one of the tech guys at Ford Racing today. He asked me if I was part of the Hot Rod article. I told him no, and he replied "thank goodness" He thought it was a poor job. In fact he told me that the writer of the article called them before hand and asked questions and advice. Someone there told him about us and the parts we handled. Sounds like it went in one ear and out the other.

 

Yeah Tim, I read the same thing on another forum and it may have indirectly been the same source. It seems a dual pattern cam was suggested and that advice not taken. I also understand that they knew about your pistons and decided against them too.

Now I can forgive ignorance because it's no big deal but I have a real problem with stupidity...and to specifically make a statement in the article to say that NO forged pistons are available for these engines when they knew otherwise. That would **** off most people. So how do we prove these things?

 

Maybe get another magazine to do a better article? And I don't mean I'm the only one that can do a great job, I think there are a lot of people very capable. I do think the readers have been "duked"
Since the 400 are more of a truck engine, a truck magazine may be a better choice. I have a pair of CHI heads that made it's path to me by way of a magazine writer also. They did some flow work on them and then I got them. I was talking to the person and they had said something about wanting to do an article on the 400. I may have to contact him, if I can remember his name

 

CRS is a sign of advancing years....

What were we talking about????

 

I have been reading car craft more often as of late and it seems they are a bit more on the ball.

 

Popular Hot Rodding has some of the best technical articles that I have seen, but a 4x4 mag would reach a more targeted audience. It's a shame that the Bronco project got cancelled.

Here is a cadidate for a CHI headed 400.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...Neck/index.php

 

Well no one is discussing the build on the HR forums. I think a truck mag or Ford Muscle would be a good outlet for a decent 351M/400 build. I was just amazed at how poorly researched that motor was. When we started to build my 400 back in 2003, we did a little research because We knew of no one building hi-po, road race inspired 400s. We found the basic parts were easy to source: crank, Eagle 4340 351W stroker; pistons, Ross for the proper, short compression hieght and reversed dome; rods, Oliver as no one else made a set long enough; timing chain, well we pulled a 1980s era circle track set off the shelf that we knew fit the bill; balancer, 351W but my pullies have been a bear to line up. If I had to do it over, and I just may, I'll buy a stroker from you (you weren't selling them back then) and call it a day. You beat my price by a mile as I had to buy everything at full, screw-the-small-volume-order-guy, MSRP.

I'd still like to see someone perform a lo-buck 408ci build-off between a 351W and a 351M/400. Or better yet, a multi-make 406-410ci build off between a 351W, 351M/400, Mopar 360, AMC 401, Chevy 350, Chevy 400. A 30 overbore max, swap meet holley 750 VS, swap meet dual plane intake, factory cranks/rods, factory cast iron heads from any era (Vortec, Magnums, and GT40P would be legal), porting and big valves would be legal, and off the shelf camshafts would be some of the basic rules. Forget the B-O-P 400s (and Mopar 400) as all those are more like traditional big blocks.

 

I sent an email to jon @

fordmuscle.

com

He is the author of the Project Redneck Article. I am trying to convince him to do a 434 motor.

Please add your 2 cents.

 

Jon from CHI heads was in the shop today for a few hours. He told me to contact a person that he has done some articles with. So I am going to give it a try.

 

Hemmings Muscle Machinee June 06 had a story on the cleveland built up.
Great mag. and would be another place for you Tim!

askray@hemmings.com Good place for us to ask. Not sure who to see on a story.

I guess just hemmings.com would be great story and I can see te jaws dropping now!