I have that effect on people....OK, here we go, the Bullydog system is set up for turbo application, but I don't have a turbo [yet]. So for now I use a toogle switch in the cab to activate the system.... I undersood what I was saying.

 

LOL!

NOW I get it! Thanks for clearing that one up.

 

bc6.9,

I think Cheaper is trying to set it up so it regulates the amount of propane as needed using the vacuum? Reading the information that pud posted it doesn’t sound like you need vacuum to operate it, it works off the atmospheric pressure changes at the intake so maybe the Impco diaphragm would work?

As for me I’m just looking for a little help in the 1400 to 2000 rpm range and I think the on off method with the right orifice would do it for me.

bc6.9, does your system the way you are using it now regulate the propane or do you just turn it on with the switch? Does it help when towing? Last – how’s the mileage?

93

 

Yeah, the diaphragm mixer might work, but it is an additional piece of equipment (=additional cost) and the worst thing about it is it HAS to restrict airflow to some degree in order for it to work. It operates off of the venturi effect, and relies on restricting the air flow to create the vacuum.

Yeah, if you're only looking for a little boost in one RPM range, an on/off will probably do it for you. You could even do a setup like Ziggster's and adjust it to trigger on automatically at 1400 RPMs. Otherwise you have to manually flip the switch every time. I'm looking more to design something that would work across the entire RPM range and adjust automatically.

 

93_E_350,
To answer your first question, "help 1400 to 2100 RPM".....yes & no
yes it will give you some kick but in around 2000 RPM but in the lower RPM range it will not work. I found the engine can not handle the extra fuel at the lower RPM.

If this sounds confusing, just look at after market propane injection set ups and you will see that they all use some sort of "load" device to activate the system.

Go back to the site you introduced to us and it explains why propane works better in a turbo application.

Does it help with MPG...YES
Does it help with Towing...power not much at all [no turbo] but helped with MPG.

 

quick question:
so if our engines dont make much vacuum and need a vacuum pump, is the brake master cylinder ran off the vacuum pump? my brakes are kinda lame and take alot of force to push down, is this caused by a bad vacuum pump?



back to topic, why wouldnt our engines create good vacuum. you put another tube going into the front of the intake kinda like where the oil gets drawn in, but on the other side of the intake. Our engines dont create vacuum, just a lower pressure than ambient. I think if you drilled a hole on the front side of the 5" opening of the intake and put a small venturi tube there you would get a drop in pressure(or what some call vacuum) this vacuum should be enough to draw in some propane.

maybe you could install a mass airflow sensor, which I think varies voltage to injectors in a gasser. You could use this varying voltage to regulate the propane injection.

just a few thoughts of the top of me noggin.

jeremy

 

another thing I have seen is linkage hooked directly from the IP to the regulator. When you give it a little gas the linkage pulls a little on the regulator to give it a little propane. give it more gas and well, you get the picture.

 

I just want to add that some others might have different [better] results with their IDI injected with propane.

I haven't done a compression test on my IDI but I know its on the tired side...uses a couple litres of oil every 1500 kilometers or so....other than that the truck runs great!

 

LOL! Let's not get into a semantics discussion on the definition of a vacuum again....

The venturi idea might work, but probably wouldn't produce much "vacuum" unless it creates a significant obstruction to the air flow - that would defeat the purpose.

The linkage idea is a good one, but harder to implement than you might think. I can't seem to find a variable regulator with anything other than a rotary ****.....

 

With a little hair pulling you could possibly use the VRV for a C 6 to control the vacuum pump vacuum that was applied to the propane regulator.

Just might work if you could get it adjusted properly.

 

VRV?!? Is that the vacuum valve on the driver's side of the throttle shaft? The one that controls shifts?

If so, that's not a bad idea. The T-60 regulator itself is pretty adjustable to be able to accomodate the different levels of vacuum sources available on various sizes and types of small engines.

Is the VRV itself a metering device, or is it just pretty much an open/closed type valve? If it has a continuously variable metering function it just might work.

I'm also looking at possibly using multiple solenoid valves and a modified rotary switch with a linkage to the throttle to control them. Thinking of maybe a 4 stage system (if you count the gas being off as a "stage"). Set it up where the first stage opens 1 solenoid valve, second stage opens 2, third stage opens all 3.

The modification to the rotary switch would to be remove the detent ball so that it turns smoothly from position to position instead of "clicking" from one position to the next. I'm looking at a 3 pole 11 position switch. That way I can get the 4 positions (including off) that I need out of just over 1/3 of a revolution of the switch.

 

my vrv has held vacuum for days after shutdown....
if a propane switch is held open by vacuum, this would be something to consider.

 

You are describing a Powershot which is the only variable system. It does however require a turbo as that automatic adjustment is controlled and proportionate to the boost pressure. You have to have something consistent to meter it with. A Bully Dog system should work on a normally aspirated engine, but still basically on/off.

 

Well...... maybe.

The question is does the VRV allow an increasing amount of vacuum to flow through it as it is rotated (variable), or does it just go from no vacuum to full strength vacuum (on/off) as it is rotated.

If it is variable it might work for controlling the regulator. If it is on/off it would be no better than Ziggster's single-stage setup controlled by a microswitch.

The T-60 regulator isn't exactly a propane "switch" (on/off), it is a variable device. As vacuum to the control port increases it allows more propane to flow through it. That's what I'm trying to come up with - a variable signal that is based on engine load and/or throttle position so that the flow of propane is proportional to the load on the engine.

 

I've been noodling on this idea and I think I've come up with a couple of ways to make it even better. Instead of having all 3 solenoids jetted the same, and opening two and three at a time for the second and third stages, I think it would be better to have only 1 solenoid open at a time, but use a bigger oriface for the second stage, and an even bigger one for the third stage. That would dramatically reduce the amount of current the rotary switch needs to withstand. Plus that way I wouldn't need a 3 pole switch - a single pole switch would do the job just fine.

I'm thinking I could supply gas equally to all of the solenoids from a small manifold with a single hose from the propane cylinder, and make the outlet of all of them dump (through individual orifaces of different sizes) into a common manifold connected to a single hose running to the air cleaner/gas diffuser. These two changes would dramatically reduce the size and cost for the rotary switch and make for a much smaller package that has to be mounted under the hood and hooked up to the throttle linkage.

I also got the idea to use a cable setup with the little 1" long beaded chain at the end for the linkage between the IP's throttle lever and the rotary switch. Just like the actuator cable on an aftermarket cruise control. That will also make it easier to install, since all that will have to be mounted up near the throttle linkage is a bracket for the cable. The rotary switch can then be mounted almost anywhere under the hood. It will also make it easier to package the rotary switch in a water-tight enclosure or box to keep it protected from getting wet.

Lastly it will make it MUCH easier to adjust at what point in the throttle lever's movement the propane "kicks in" if I fabricate a cable linkage with adjusters and jamb-nuts at both ends. This way, during the first part of the throttle lever's movement it will be just taking up the "slack" in the 1" long beaded chain, but the chain won't impede the throttle lever's movement at all. Since propane doesn't help much at low RPMs it will remain off until the throttle opening/RPM range gets high enough for it to be worthwhile. The point in the RPM range/throttle opening where the propane actually kicks in will be easily adjustable by adjusting when the cable pulls up tight enough to turn the rotary switch and power the first solenoid on.

Naturally the lever arm on the rotary switch will be spring loaded to return to the off position when the throttle closes. I also plan on using a Hobbs switch activated by oil pressure to supply power to the system so it can only turn on the propane when the engine is running. And of course I'll incorporate a manual on/off switch in the cab to be able to manually interrupt power to the system so I can turn the whole thing off when I want to. I'm even thinking I might even be able to make this a 4-solenoid system to refine the metering accuracy that much more.

I think this idea may actually work out. Now I just have to find some reasonably priced parts. Ebay here I come.....