trans fluid caution beware
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trans fluid caution beware
The caution advisory is on Valvoline transmission fluid. They add to the confusion and frustration with Mercon V and what ever fluid we are left with to use my experience doing a simple Tranny flush went bad enough with the mystery extra fluid (checked on level ground) only to find synthetic is what I have domed my wife’s car with a 2002 Ford Escape automatic Transmission 6cly 85k miles
I thought I was doing a preventive maintenance transmission fluid change, I proceeded as follows; warmed the vehicle up (15 mile drive) parked and drained one gallon of fluid, replenished the one gallon fluid (as per Chilton manual procedure) adding small amounts with engine running, drove vehicle 5 mile test drive cycling threw all gears as well as overdrive and cruise control. Parked vehicles removed the new one gallon of transmission fluid (sacrificed for flushing purpose) test drove the vehicle, everything was fine! Discovered the dip stick was reading quart to much! Hot motor as well as cold? So naturally removed the one quart, then a slipping began! Then the frustration! Posing the question to the dealer, what might be the problem? As well as, is the fluid being used wrong? They didn’t know why the dip stick would read one quart to much! And regarding the type of transmission fluid there answer conflicted with the manual and Chilton’s! As did the answer by another dealer about the type of transmission fluid. One says Mercon V the other Dextron III/ Mercon? The fluid that was put in was Dextron III/Mercon ! But here is what adds to the problem, the new fluid is a synthetic! Only discovered this by calling the manufacture, Valvoline. When asked what is your fluid synthetic or natural oil based? We were told synthetic! But nowhere on the bottle does it state the product is synthetic! We specifically shopped for non synthetic per manual recommendations. So the fix is what? Is the transmission damaged? Or everything will be fine the dipstick is wrong possible manufacture error (being wrong dip stick installed) and just add the quart back into transmission! Or having the Trans flushed would fix the problem any advise would be appreciated Thank you
I thought I was doing a preventive maintenance transmission fluid change, I proceeded as follows; warmed the vehicle up (15 mile drive) parked and drained one gallon of fluid, replenished the one gallon fluid (as per Chilton manual procedure) adding small amounts with engine running, drove vehicle 5 mile test drive cycling threw all gears as well as overdrive and cruise control. Parked vehicles removed the new one gallon of transmission fluid (sacrificed for flushing purpose) test drove the vehicle, everything was fine! Discovered the dip stick was reading quart to much! Hot motor as well as cold? So naturally removed the one quart, then a slipping began! Then the frustration! Posing the question to the dealer, what might be the problem? As well as, is the fluid being used wrong? They didn’t know why the dip stick would read one quart to much! And regarding the type of transmission fluid there answer conflicted with the manual and Chilton’s! As did the answer by another dealer about the type of transmission fluid. One says Mercon V the other Dextron III/ Mercon? The fluid that was put in was Dextron III/Mercon ! But here is what adds to the problem, the new fluid is a synthetic! Only discovered this by calling the manufacture, Valvoline. When asked what is your fluid synthetic or natural oil based? We were told synthetic! But nowhere on the bottle does it state the product is synthetic! We specifically shopped for non synthetic per manual recommendations. So the fix is what? Is the transmission damaged? Or everything will be fine the dipstick is wrong possible manufacture error (being wrong dip stick installed) and just add the quart back into transmission! Or having the Trans flushed would fix the problem any advise would be appreciated Thank you
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From: South Kitsap County, WA
You've contacted the dealer to see what the Ford manual says, since you have the manual and it conflicts with the Chilton's. The slippage is there because of the wrong fluid. Chilton's, Haynes, and any other repair manual does their best to be right, but they do have flaws - and have a disclaimer to that effect, so they cover themselves.
You caught the problem before it has done any real damage, now it needs to be fixed correctly. The best bet was to take it to a transmission shop or the dealer... at least they have a guarranty in place, so if they screw up they either make it right or you can sue. You have encountered one of the flaws in doing it yourself.... believing the info given by an after market shop manual.
If you feel that you can recover from this yourself, you should probably recheck the info given against a Ford tech manual... my local dealer allows me to look stuff up. As far as synthetic vs. full dino... that's an odd recommendation, since the Motorcraft Mercon V is a semi-synthic from Ford. Mercon/Dexron has never been cross compatible with it. My bet is that Mercon V is what is supposed to be in it since it is slipping as it is.
-Kerry
You caught the problem before it has done any real damage, now it needs to be fixed correctly. The best bet was to take it to a transmission shop or the dealer... at least they have a guarranty in place, so if they screw up they either make it right or you can sue. You have encountered one of the flaws in doing it yourself.... believing the info given by an after market shop manual.
If you feel that you can recover from this yourself, you should probably recheck the info given against a Ford tech manual... my local dealer allows me to look stuff up. As far as synthetic vs. full dino... that's an odd recommendation, since the Motorcraft Mercon V is a semi-synthic from Ford. Mercon/Dexron has never been cross compatible with it. My bet is that Mercon V is what is supposed to be in it since it is slipping as it is.
-Kerry
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Thanks kerry’ I got with Ford and was advised as long as its not a mix! (Meaning adding a quart to existing fluid) I flushed it all, now it’s completely synthetic! But they couldn’t offer an explanation to the dip stick issue reading to full, As far as using synthetic this goes for motor oil too. It should only be used and continue being used in new cars! If introduced to a high mileage car, it could throw bearings and seep past seals it shouldn’t. I gave in! And settled for letting sleeping dog’s lye; I added the quart and so far so good, no slipping! I could have machined it all out, But choose not too! whats done is done! My only annoying issue is with Valvoline , their being deceptive the majority of do it your- or suffers, wont use synthetic, and they can get that market too.......... thanks again
Last edited by amerimutt; Oct 6, 2006 at 04:28 PM.
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From: St Louis
Uh, you have an Escape, what's that got to do with an F150?
FWIW, ALL Ford trannys may take Mercon V. If you installed a Mercon/DexronIII rated fluid into a tranny that requires Mercon V, it's going to have problems regardless if it's VAlvoline, Motorcraft, or anything else.
Best advice is to chuck the Chilton's into the trash and replace it with the Helms.
You can look up current (almost) fluid recommendations at http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricant...r/quickref.asp (an Offical Motorcraft site) or find it at www.motorcraft.com
Steve
FWIW, ALL Ford trannys may take Mercon V. If you installed a Mercon/DexronIII rated fluid into a tranny that requires Mercon V, it's going to have problems regardless if it's VAlvoline, Motorcraft, or anything else.
Best advice is to chuck the Chilton's into the trash and replace it with the Helms.
You can look up current (almost) fluid recommendations at http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricant...r/quickref.asp (an Offical Motorcraft site) or find it at www.motorcraft.com
Steve
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Gee thanks Steve, you should check on that fluid chart yourself! your f150 my f150 and everyone’s else’s f150 and my wife’s ESCAPE 1997-2004 are not to use Mercon V only Dextron III/ Mercon But that’s the only comparison an escape and an f150 have in common other than being Fords, if you read the post while paying attention! It was never stated using Mercon V in an escape. As for posting an escape in the f150 forum, I figured there are more motor heads in the f150 forum that would offer good advise but I guess so far it’s been a miss
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most of the new transmissions built after 1997 use the MERCON V which is a synthetic blend, The original MERCON has a different "slip addative" and is not a synthetic blend, but closer to GM Dextron flluid.
I have a 98 mustang, 2002 explorer and 2001 F150 and all the transmission use the new MERCON V synthetc. I dont know if the Valvoline you bought was Mer V or standard Mercon, that might be why they said it was "synthetic" if it was actually Mer V. ------ othe old F150 R100 transmission is the old Mercon, the new R70 and the 4 and 5 speed autos in the Explorer and Mustang are Mercon V. I dont know what trans you have, but would guess it is same as the Mustang and should have Mercon V. Mercon standard would work, but you may experience some slipping or engagement problems due to the differnt coefficient of friction/ modifiers in the oil.
I have a 98 mustang, 2002 explorer and 2001 F150 and all the transmission use the new MERCON V synthetc. I dont know if the Valvoline you bought was Mer V or standard Mercon, that might be why they said it was "synthetic" if it was actually Mer V. ------ othe old F150 R100 transmission is the old Mercon, the new R70 and the 4 and 5 speed autos in the Explorer and Mustang are Mercon V. I dont know what trans you have, but would guess it is same as the Mustang and should have Mercon V. Mercon standard would work, but you may experience some slipping or engagement problems due to the differnt coefficient of friction/ modifiers in the oil.
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From: South Kitsap County, WA
This is strange... Ford is telling you that you can't use Mercon V? I'm getting confused by this.
I don't know who is telling you to use Mercon/Dexron III in the Escape's transmission, but I'd be calling FoMoCo if they are telling you it's no longer available and to use the wrong fluid. The added quart of Mercon/Dexron III could be creating enough pressure to allow the transmission to operate properly... but without the right friction modifiers and chemical content you'll be needing to rebuild the tranny sooner than before.
-Kerry
I don't know who is telling you to use Mercon/Dexron III in the Escape's transmission, but I'd be calling FoMoCo if they are telling you it's no longer available and to use the wrong fluid. The added quart of Mercon/Dexron III could be creating enough pressure to allow the transmission to operate properly... but without the right friction modifiers and chemical content you'll be needing to rebuild the tranny sooner than before.
-Kerry
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Ya 2002 escape has been a debate! one says one, the other says the other, the manual that came with the car states don't use the V .On the phone with Ford they stated only use dextron III/mercon for a change don't use the DextronIII/Mercon V
you see there is 2 different types one is natural oil based (or partial)the other is synthetic, This is why I posted caution! Hey this is ford and thre trannys again! I researched like crazy just to put the right stuff in and got snuck by valvoline
you see there is 2 different types one is natural oil based (or partial)the other is synthetic, This is why I posted caution! Hey this is ford and thre trannys again! I researched like crazy just to put the right stuff in and got snuck by valvoline
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From: South Kitsap County, WA
I'd be parking your Escape on someone's door (start at the dealer, then go from there). If the dealer can't figure it out and give you a letter staying which way it's supposed to be (it's Mercon V, BTW), they need to fix the issue before the transmission goes bad. Even if you started the process, you were basing this on the info over the phone and in your owner's manual.
-Kerry
-Kerry
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this is from chevrons site note: what it says about the E4od trannys, and doesnt claim what to use nor do they make the combo DexIII/Merc
Here are the most commonly specified ATFs:
DEXRON® -III
This is a specification for General Motors vehicles, but many foreign manufactures specify a DEXRON approved ATF as well. DEXRON-III can be used in transmissions that call for DEXRON-IIE or DEXRON-II.
more info
MERCON®
Most Ford vehicles manufactured between 1980 and 1999 specify a MERCON ATF. ATFs that meet DEXRON-III requirements usually meet the MERCON requirements as well.
more info.
MERCON® V
Beginning with the 1997 model year, Ford introduced a higher performance level ATF with the MERCON V specification. Many Ford automatic transmissions from 1999 on will require a MERCON V fluid. The most notable exceptions are the E40D, 4R100, and CD4E transmissions, which still specify regular MERCON ATF.
this is from chevrons site note: what it says about the E4od trannys, and doesnt claim what to use nor do they make the combo DexIII/Merc
Here are the most commonly specified ATFs:
DEXRON® -III
This is a specification for General Motors vehicles, but many foreign manufactures specify a DEXRON approved ATF as well. DEXRON-III can be used in transmissions that call for DEXRON-IIE or DEXRON-II.
more info
MERCON®
Most Ford vehicles manufactured between 1980 and 1999 specify a MERCON ATF. ATFs that meet DEXRON-III requirements usually meet the MERCON requirements as well.
more info.
MERCON® V
Beginning with the 1997 model year, Ford introduced a higher performance level ATF with the MERCON V specification. Many Ford automatic transmissions from 1999 on will require a MERCON V fluid. The most notable exceptions are the E40D, 4R100, and CD4E transmissions, which still specify regular MERCON ATF.
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thanks Kerry I know it shouldn't be that confusing I'm sorry I draged this out, it's a dead issue! I'm only saying, I'm stuck where I'm at with it, just posing an advisery! I don't mean to miss lead anyone just be carefull what you put in your car ford loves when you do
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From: South Kitsap County, WA
I finally see your issue - duh
. The only two trannies that require the Mercon/Dexron III fluid after '97 or so was the 4R100/E4OD (they are the same thing) and the Escape's Mazda designed tranny (which I thought was phased out after the Probe and 626 went away - it is not the greatest design).
I apologize for my ignorance. Let me remove the foot from my mouth.
The CD4E used Mercon/Dexron III up until 2006. In your case, dino stock is fine. Dexron III is virtually the same as Mercon, hence the reason why you can use it. "MERCON®
Most Ford vehicles manufactured between 1980 and 1999 specify a MERCON ATF. ATFs that meet DEXRON-III requirements usually meet the MERCON requirements as well." I have found that to be true.
Now as far as the reason why your dip stick is screwed up... well, now that's a whole new issue. I can't give you an answer other than to ask was it like this before you changed the tranny fluid.
Again, I apologize... I called you on a problem that was legit, but based on my ignorance, I basically told you the wrong info. Sorry...
-Kerry
. The only two trannies that require the Mercon/Dexron III fluid after '97 or so was the 4R100/E4OD (they are the same thing) and the Escape's Mazda designed tranny (which I thought was phased out after the Probe and 626 went away - it is not the greatest design).I apologize for my ignorance. Let me remove the foot from my mouth.
The CD4E used Mercon/Dexron III up until 2006. In your case, dino stock is fine. Dexron III is virtually the same as Mercon, hence the reason why you can use it. "MERCON®
Most Ford vehicles manufactured between 1980 and 1999 specify a MERCON ATF. ATFs that meet DEXRON-III requirements usually meet the MERCON requirements as well." I have found that to be true.
Now as far as the reason why your dip stick is screwed up... well, now that's a whole new issue. I can't give you an answer other than to ask was it like this before you changed the tranny fluid.
Again, I apologize... I called you on a problem that was legit, but based on my ignorance, I basically told you the wrong info. Sorry...
-Kerry
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Here's an easy solution to the problem. Read the trans. dipstick, it should tell you what fluid to use. If it says Mercon, then use Dex III/ Mercon. If it says MerconV, then use MerconV. If it does not have anything on it, then refer to the owners manual located in the glovebox. If you still are unable to find the info you need then go to Ford or a reputable tranny shop and go by what they say.