Are the frame the same
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Are the frame the same
I am sitting here thinking about swapping a 354 perkins in a 1994 f-350 that now has a 460 in it. You are probably wanting to know why I am posting a topic in this forum. Well it is like this, I have a 1981 350 custom that I can pull the engine and front clip of to fit and fabricate the engine mounts for the perkins and I am wondering if the frames and the cross members are the same. If they are I will fit everything in place on the 81 so I can swap everything out of the 94 in one weekend and not have a total teardown. I am still driving the 94 daily and do not want to tear it down for a few months. I would go out and measure but the 81 is not here right now. Thanks for the help Jake
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i had a post the other wk with a question on a 82 150 and a 90 150 . they said then some of the later models had crumble zones and werent the same. but that was a smaller model and i was concerned for a snowplow. i dont know how much the engine mounts would be affected. i know its not a 350 but i hope that gives you an idea
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...-the-same.html
theres a link to the other post
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...-the-same.html
theres a link to the other post
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From: Chrisney Indiana
not true
Well i have an f-250 and it has a colapsible from or also called an acordian frame. i have an 82 f-150 and it isn't so there are some difference. its easy to tell these frames apart though. just look for a holey frame. this is a colapsible frame and are not as strong.
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From: Quesnel, BC, Canada
my 96 PSD F350 has no crumple zones...the weight of the diesel engine would mangle the thing...Check your truck for crumple zones.
However the frame widths, and engine x-members are the same. So for a mock up of the mounting, you could use the 81.
However the frame widths, and engine x-members are the same. So for a mock up of the mounting, you could use the 81.
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From: Kent WA
Originally Posted by andym
They should be the same. As far as I know, all F-250 and F-350 frames were same from 1980 to 1997.
I was thinking of converting my 86 2WD to 4WD so I parked it right next to my buddy's 85 4WD and started looking at the front frames. His frame is fully boxed in the front in the area of the shackle mounts. Mine is an open-faced C-channel.
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Originally Posted by Old Rust Bucket
For your sake I do hope that the automotive Perkins were better then the industrial engines. The industrial Perkins were junk. Just a friendly heads up.
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From: Bonita Springs FL
Originally Posted by CheaperJeeper
Well, FWIW, I can tell you that some of the F250 2WD and F250 4WD frames were different in the mid 80's - at least the SuperCab models were. The 2WDs are a coil-sprung TIB whereas the 4WDs are a leaf-sprung SFA.
I was thinking of converting my 86 2WD to 4WD so I parked it right next to my buddy's 85 4WD and started looking at the front frames. His frame is fully boxed in the front in the area of the shackle mounts. Mine is an open-faced C-channel.
I have not seen a 4x4 truck with a boxed frame that was done from the factory, but admittedly I haven't seen many mid 80's truck frames.
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From: Quesnel, BC, Canada
my 96 psd doesnt have a boxed frame. Its an F350, w/ leaf sprung D60. I extremely, highly doubt they put a boxed front on an 85 F250. That would be like saying the 460 and 7.3 got the mazda M5OD and the 5.0L got the ZF....remember a powerstroke 7.# weighs twice that of a 5.0L.
I also have never seen a boxed frame, stock on any 70/80/90s light duty Ford truck.
PS the f250 4x4s got a SFA untill 79, then not again untill the '98 Superduties.
I also have never seen a boxed frame, stock on any 70/80/90s light duty Ford truck.
PS the f250 4x4s got a SFA untill 79, then not again untill the '98 Superduties.
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From: Kent WA
Originally Posted by andym
4x4 f-250's didn't come with a solid front axle until 1999. 4x4 F-350's didn't even come with one until mid year 1986. Besides, those are differences in the suspension, not in the frame.
Are you sure someone didn't box the frame when they swapped the Dana 60 in? I have not seen a 4x4 truck with a boxed frame that was done from the factory, but admittedly I haven't seen many mid 80's truck frames.
Are you sure someone didn't box the frame when they swapped the Dana 60 in?
I have not seen a 4x4 truck with a boxed frame that was done from the factory, but admittedly I haven't seen many mid 80's truck frames.Meantime, might want to read this thread
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...onversion.html
There are others who would seem to disagree with some of your statements, FWIW.
And BTW, coil sprung axles vs. leaf sprung axles require that there be differences in the frame - since they are mounted to and support the frame in totally different ways.
Last edited by CheaperJeeper; Oct 9, 2006 at 01:38 PM.
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From: Quesnel, BC, Canada
holes in frame dont constitute a difference IMO. There are slight differences for hardware purposes, but dimensionally are all closely the same. Since you can take any f150/f150/f350 body part from 1980-1996(97f350) and swap with any of the other, in any of those years. The Coil sprung trucks all use the same crap, you can stick 81 2wd f350 coils in a 1996 f150/bronco 4wd and vice versa. You can take a tranny x-member from a 94 f350 that has a ZF5 and stick it in your 1980s truck, 2wd or 4wd.
The leaf sprung trucks got no crumple zones, since the shackles are in the front. My truck doesnt have a boxed frame, however the engine x-member extends forward towards the bumper making it look boxed in...but its not, you can remove the x-member by grinding off the rivets and pounding them out. Its not one pieced. Infront of the shackles there is a bracket to stop side/side sway in the pivot.
Everything in the main C-channels are the same, theres nothing majorly different enough to hinder using an 80s truck for engine/drivetrain mock up purposes to go into a 90s truck, and vice versa.
The leaf sprung trucks got no crumple zones, since the shackles are in the front. My truck doesnt have a boxed frame, however the engine x-member extends forward towards the bumper making it look boxed in...but its not, you can remove the x-member by grinding off the rivets and pounding them out. Its not one pieced. Infront of the shackles there is a bracket to stop side/side sway in the pivot.
Everything in the main C-channels are the same, theres nothing majorly different enough to hinder using an 80s truck for engine/drivetrain mock up purposes to go into a 90s truck, and vice versa.
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From: Kent WA
We may be pretty close in what we're saying - just saying it differnt ways PUD.
When I say the frame is "boxed" I mean that the C-channel isn't open-faced on the inside - like mine is. It is closed in (like putting a lid on a box). Dunno' if it is welded or riveted, but it doesn't make much difference IMO.
I do know that the front shackles on his are bolted through both vertical surfaces of the "boxed" section. There is a hole in the bottom of the frame and the shackle sicks up through that hole. The bolt that holds the shackle to the frame goes through both sides of the "boxed" section.
You may be right about it being held together with rivets, and if you have the frames out and side-by-side, changing one to the other may be pretty simple. BUT, if you have to remove the whole front of the truck to get to it to remove the riveted secton from one to move it over to the other (which would be the case to go from coils to leaves) then it certainly wouldn't be easy.
When I say the frame is "boxed" I mean that the C-channel isn't open-faced on the inside - like mine is. It is closed in (like putting a lid on a box). Dunno' if it is welded or riveted, but it doesn't make much difference IMO.
I do know that the front shackles on his are bolted through both vertical surfaces of the "boxed" section. There is a hole in the bottom of the frame and the shackle sicks up through that hole. The bolt that holds the shackle to the frame goes through both sides of the "boxed" section.
You may be right about it being held together with rivets, and if you have the frames out and side-by-side, changing one to the other may be pretty simple. BUT, if you have to remove the whole front of the truck to get to it to remove the riveted secton from one to move it over to the other (which would be the case to go from coils to leaves) then it certainly wouldn't be easy.
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From: Quesnel, BC, Canada
agreed...but its not so much a hole in the bottom, rather than a clearance cut. The bracket coming from the front, anf the x-member coming from the rear definately make it look like one full piece (on my truck) but it isnt.
I have a solution to your 2wd-4wd mission I will post in the thread you started.
I have a solution to your 2wd-4wd mission I will post in the thread you started.